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[electrical]

ivan40 wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 00:18

Steve, when you are being a band member or choosing a mic or are in any way actively involving yourself in music or music production, are you not making choices that you like??

As a band member, of course. My band is entirely concerned with pleasing itself.

As an engineer, I'm trying to hit a target. A target that is defined by the wishes of the people I'm working for. The singer wants his vocals louder, the other band members don't, I don't mind either way. I let them come to a consensus, show them some options, and then they decide. The guitar player wants his sound to be thicker, the bass player thinks it's too muddy, I don't mind either way. I let them come to a consensus... you get the idea.

I have to decipher the necessary steps based on my understanding of the band's expectations. It has literally nothing to do with what my preferences are. I have made consistently better records since I long ago stopped trying to make them to suit me. It should have been no surprise (but it occasionally has been) that the band know best what they want their own music to comprise.

[hargerst]

I know when I'm recording a band, I usually tell them up front what I'll be doing:

I'm not here to judge their music.  If they want my opinion on something, I'll give it, but they must understand it's only my opinion.  If I hear something I don't think is working, I'll point out why I think it's not working, and I'll offer some suggestions on how it might work better.  But then, it's their job to evaluate my statements and either change it if they agree, or tell me that's what they want, in which case, it's my job to make it work.

I do consider myself an extra set of ears, but I'm really just a casual observer, with no standing in the band.  If I hear something that I don't think the band is aware of, I'll point it out, but it has to be their call about what to do about it.

My job is to help them get what they're paying for - a good recording of their music.  If they ask for help, I'll give it to them, with the understanding that they must make the final decisions as to whether my suggestions are of any use to them.  

Some people call that production; I don't.

In the end, it's their name that goes on the front of the album, not mine.

[Ryan Leigh Patterson]

I'm not nearly as experienced as Steve or Harvey, but I've quickly realized that when I've got the engineers hat on, I find it easiest to stay the fairly detached from the music.  I'll do my best in understanding the sound the band is trying to achieve and I'll offer technical ideas that I feel will help to produce the results the band is looking for.  Occasionally I'll make suggestions for guitar overdubs, vocal harmonies, keyobard parts, etc if I see that a band is unsure of the arrangement, but this is usually if I've been asked to assume a production role in addition to engineering duties.

On another note, I really enjoy working with good jazz players.  Set up a few mics in the room, let them play ... a couple minor mixing tweaks ... done.

 

[jimmyjazz]

Steve, I'm curious . . . when (if ever) do you pipe up about something being out of tune or the band not being very tight?  The reason I ask is twofold:

1.  perfect tuning and perfect ensemble playing have never been achieved, so some deviation from "perfect" has to be acceptable, even if we don't all agree what that threshold level is

2.  some artists don't aim for perfection -- the flaws are part of their "sound"


I guess I wonder where you draw the line as far as commenting on the aesthetics of what is going down in the studio.  Apologies if you have answered this before (and I'm sure you have).

[cenafria]

Quote:

For my money, the most important aspect of a session is how comfortable the band is with the process. The band has to feel that they and their music are being taken seriously. This requires attention to detail, willingness to adapt to circumstances and the stamina to go the extra mile. Make the band comfortable with the process, listen to their wishes, take them seriously, and the session will be a success, whether you think the record "sucks" or not.

Steve, thanks for your wisdom!

I really believe this paragraph holds the key to keeping a studio running.

Javier Ortiz
www.estudiobrazil.com

[electrical]

jimmyjazz wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 12:53

Steve, I'm curious . . . when (if ever) do you pipe up about something being out of tune or the band not being very tight?

If something sounds weird to me, and there's a chance the band weren't paying attention, I may mention it and play that passage for them again, but if they think it sounds good, then I forget about it.

[Bob Olhsson]

Unfortunately many people today treat recording engineering as their stepping stone to becoming a producer or an artist. This can often leave performers rightfully feeling like they are little more than the next rung for some ambitious "producer"/engineer to step on.

[Samc]

Bob Olhsson wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 19:39

Unfortunately many people today treat recording engineering as their stepping stone to becoming a producer or an artist.

This is a sickness that has infected every stage of the production process.  The new breed of specialist mixer dudes think it's their job to bring a "new vision" to the production at the 11th hour, and some mastering engineers would just love to impose
their ideas of good sound on the musicians.

[Ron Steele]

The producer/engineer is nothing new.

As a matter of fact, it's a natural crossover that has resulted in some great records.

So why is it so hard to except this as a viable profession, and more then often, a requested and respected choice of a band or artist?

Whatever, it's not like producers or re-mixers will go away because somebody thinks it's an imposition, especially when many feel it's a plus.


And yes, I do think. a  plumber is entitled to have an opinion on the tile.

Were all free to think what we want to.

[maxim]

sam wrote:

"The new breed of specialist mixer dudes think it's their job to bring a "new vision" to the production at the 11th hour"

too many cooks...

[Ryan Leigh Patterson]

Just one way to make a record, among many....and we are free to choose which ever method suits the project.  

[Ronny]

Ryan Leigh Patterson wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 22:43

Just one way to make a record, among many....and we are free to choose which ever method suits the project.

Yep, but will you please tell the guitar player to tune that damn B string.  

[j.hall]

electrical wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 12:45

jimmyjazz wrote on Mon, 30 January 2006 12:53 Steve, I'm curious . . . when (if ever) do you pipe up about something being out of tune or the band not being very tight? If something sounds weird to me, and there's a chance the band weren't paying attention, I may mention it and play that passage for them again, but if they think it sounds good, then I forget about it.

i don't understand all this.  why does steve spend a large amount of his on-line time being the victim of a witch hunt?

What difference does it make, to any of you, what Steve defines his role to be?  

he cuts more records a year then pretty much any other AE out there.

sure, i disagree with some of his opinions, and vice versa, but i think steve would be the first to admit that that is just fine.

[jimmyjazz]

j.hall wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 16:02

What difference does it make, to any of you, what Steve defines his role to be?

What crawled up your ass?

The fact that Steve works on so many records and marches to a different engineering drummer and is more than willing to discuss his recording philosophies is exactly why people like me ask him these questions.  Why does it matter to you, anyway?

[John Ivan]

FWIW, I'm just kickin' ideas around. I find it interesting that we all tend to take a different approach and I see them all as valid. It's a great learning experience for me to read all these point's of view.

So, I'm not out to dog any ones working method. I'm here to learn what they are.

It's all good food for thought.

Ivan.....................................