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Author Topic: usefulness of the Crane song HEDD  (Read 13165 times)

bobkatz

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Re: usefulness of the Crane song HEDD
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2006, 09:19:13 AM »

dcollins wrote on Tue, 24 January 2006 00:39

bobkatz wrote on Mon, 23 January 2006 19:06


Only to you, pardner.



Ah shucks, Bob.

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We're somewhere around 96-97, I think with the Avocet. But I can start grading on a curve if you want Smile.



What I would rather see is no letter or numerical grade!  Sound just doesn't work like that. What grade would you give the Mona Lisa?  At least an 80, I'd venture.......




If you LIKE it REAL REAL REAL well, it's an A+, ok? At some point you have to have "criteria", and sound is subjective, so it does work "like that", only you can apply some kind of a number on it if it's "relative" to something else. Why not?

After objective measurements for the basic frequency response, noise floor, distortion, and linearity...  My criteria include "authenticity", "naturalness", "stereo spread", "lack of color", "imaging", "depth", "purity of tone", "extension", "authority"...      all kinds of nebulous things that make it very clear that "sound DOES work like that"... all one can do is try to rate the piece of gear. If all you are capable of saying is, "I like it", or "I don't like it", or "I wouldn't kick it out of bed,", then how can you begin to separate all the myriads of converters you've had before from the one you have now?  It's not science, yeah, it's SOUND! it's just my attempt to put some kind of relativity in here and to put a magnitude on it.

I hear an old Apogee Rosetta or PSX 100 "A" converter and it's very colored, I don't like it. But I've heard far worse. So I give it a "B". And so the ratings start to make some kind of sense.

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Also, if you haven't auditioned the Lavry 924, PMI or Weiss D/A's in your room, 97% of what?


Now you're asking reasonable questions. I've had a Weiss in my room a long time ago. Much too long ago and with different speakers and amplifier. It sounded very good and I compared it to the Benchmark in an A/B analog switch with matched levels. In that environment I didn't feel it was a win-win situation. There were some things to my ears that the Weiss did better and some that I felt the Benchmark did better. But that was then and this is now.

Years ago, I had an early version Lavry Gold in here before the Dave Collins mod. I was unimpressed with its analog sound quality. I await hearing the new Gold when I know I want to spend the money on one. I refuse to jerk Dan's chain by asking for one for audition until that moment.

I recently had a $20,000 DCS converter in here. It just did not beat the Avocet to my ears.

And I know what my own best recordings should "sound like", at least through long term averaging of the best... you never listen to just one piece of music. To make up a story, if everything sounds bright and sibilant on converter A, but not on Converter B, it's probably a problem with converter A. End of story, grade is a "C" or a "D".

So I have a very good idea of what "100%" is supposed to sound like. I await some kind of a miracle from the Weiss or Gold the next time I hear them, but I expect a small, incremental improvement, not something that will completely rescale my scale. But maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, in that case all my old "A's" will have to move down to A minus or below..

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How did you A/B the original HEDD D/A with the latest mod?

DC



I couldn't, directly A/B. But I could compare it with other DACs in my system, and after replacing the old one with the new one, suddenly the new HEDD DAC came right up to the quality of the best DACs I have. Sometimes that's the only method avaiable.

When you do a mod to a piece of gear, new power supply, new capacitors, how do you compare the mod with the old? Sometimes you have to go on your best instincts and memory. It's not at all scientific, is it?  

I could preface each letter grade with an "assurance rating"  Smile.  Hmmm... now the HEDD DAC, the new one is an "A" compared with a "B" for the old one. And I'm 90% sure of that  Smile.

BK
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dcollins

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Re: usefulness of the Crane song HEDD
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2006, 01:16:35 AM »

bobkatz wrote on Tue, 24 January 2006 06:19


If you LIKE it REAL REAL REAL well, it's an A+, ok? At some point you have to have "criteria", and sound is subjective, so it does work "like that", only you can apply some kind of a number on it if it's "relative" to something else. Why not?



Simply because it is subjective!  The letter/number is objective.

Saying "I like this one better than that one" is plenty.

Is this controversial?

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After objective measurements for the basic frequency response, noise floor, distortion, and linearity...  My criteria include "authenticity", "naturalness", "stereo spread", "lack of color", "imaging", "depth", "purity of tone", "extension", "authority"...      all kinds of nebulous things that make it very clear that "sound DOES work like that"...



I love your prosaic terms!  "Purity," "Naturalness" -- my heart swoons!

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all one can do is try to rate the piece of gear. If all you are capable of saying is, "I like it", or "I don't like it", or "I wouldn't kick it out of bed,", then how can you begin to separate all the myriads of converters you've had before from the one you have now?  



Yep. That's all I need, to like it better.  I don't have to write 1500 words in a review with flowery adjectives, I just buy one.

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Now you're asking reasonable questions.



Well, it's about time!

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So I have a very good idea of what "100%" is supposed to sound like.



We all do.  But who says they are the same as yours?  One mans 92 might be anothers -92.

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I await some kind of a miracle from the Weiss or Gold the next time I hear them, but I expect a small, incremental improvement, not something that will completely rescale my scale.



If you're going to make pronouncements that you have found The Holy Grail, it needs to include all the competition. At the very least.

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I couldn't, directly A/B. But I could compare it with other DACs in my system, and after replacing the old one with the new one, suddenly the new HEDD DAC came right up to the quality of the best DACs I have. Sometimes that's the only method avaiable.



I don't doubt it, but relying on memory to distinguish small differences is not a great idea.

Quote:


When you do a mod to a piece of gear, new power supply, new capacitors, how do you compare the mod with the old? Sometimes you have to go on your best instincts and memory. It's not at all scientific, is it?  



No. Some guys will tell you that their mods are always better!  But not me.  It is a bit demoralizing to have to pull the mod out, but you also have to be honest with yourself...

Always having a "stock" unit to compare is very basic, especially if you are dealing with "small differences."

Quote:


I could preface each letter grade with an "assurance rating"  Smile.  Hmmm... now the HEDD DAC, the new one is an "A" compared with a "B" for the old one. And I'm 90% sure of that  Smile.



Yes, that would clear things right up...

DC

ak

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Re: usefulness of the Crane song HEDD
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2006, 06:06:53 AM »

hi,

just have two questions regarding the HEDD:

Is the input sampling rated also the sync for the output samplerated. So both can be only the  same ?

Is it possible to A/D with 176,4 kc (or at least 88,2 kc) and internally divide by 4 (2) to get 44.1kc output ?

This is what i am looking for.

greetings


Andreas Kauffelt
Schnittstelle
Mastering & Vinylschnitt
Frankfurt - Germany  
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bblackwood

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Re: usefulness of the Crane song HEDD
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2006, 08:12:12 AM »

ak wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 05:06


Is it possible to A/D with 176,4 kc (or at least 88,2 kc) and internally divide by 4 (2) to get 44.1kc output ?

No, the HEDD does not sample-rate convert. The rate you sample at is the rate it spits out...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

Samc

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Re: usefulness of the Crane song HEDD
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2006, 12:21:50 PM »

Have any of you guys had the chance to listen to the Stagetec converters from Germany?  I think you might be more than a little bit surprised.
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Sam Clayton
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