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Author Topic: write, play, track, mix...yourself  (Read 10443 times)

Invisible Member

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2006, 01:50:11 PM »

OK so heres a twist Smile

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5407156228665329611& amp;q=sonic

Peace,
Dennis
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maxim

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2006, 05:58:58 PM »

dennis wrote:

"I agree with Malice but I also agree with Maxim."

please note, i never said, you can't make a great record in one day

but you can make one in 365 also

as the 'art of war' says, turn your weaknesses into your strengths

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Invisible Member

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2006, 12:22:08 PM »

maxim wrote on Tue, 24 January 2006 14:58

dennis wrote:

"I agree with Malice but I also agree with Maxim."

please note, i never said, you can't make a great record in one day

but you can make one in 365 also

as the 'art of war' says, turn your weaknesses into your strengths




I can't see where I said that you said....but my interpretation of the conversation was several points were being made that seemed contradictory but were not because of the context. Maybe my personal perspective with a lefty spin clouded my point instead of clarifying it. My apologies if there was an accidental implication.

I'll go back to my corner now.

Peace,
Dennis
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scott volthause

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2006, 01:07:00 PM »

So what do I do when I can play the bass parts better than the bass player can?

This is what I'm up against right now.

The bass player said it wouldn't hurt his feelings if I played bass on the EP, as he said he wouldn't want to compromise the end product, but I would feel bad about doing that.

Any adivse?
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j.hall

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2006, 01:19:06 PM »

if the bass playing isn't right, you need to play it.  

especially if he isn't going to be weird about it.
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Fibes

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2006, 02:16:38 PM »

I'm as inclusive as i can be but in the end it's all about the big picture.

Try the bass part and put it up for blind A/B listening. Sometimes this gets the other dudes juices flowing well enough to get on board.

The path sometimes needs examples not signs...
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Fibes
-------------------------------------------------
"You can like it, or not like it."
The Studio

  http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist ?id=155759887
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http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse2

pg666

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2006, 03:30:08 PM »

i've only been in one situation where we decided to keep a mediocre element that could have easily been replaced (which also happened to be bass). this guy was a founding member of the band and he'd put a lot of time and money into it so they wanted to include him on the recording before he moved away.

..and then the other guys heard the bass solo'd. they opted for mixing the bass "..and justice for all" style instead of re-recording it, but still. it's not fair for the other people involved to have to live with someone else's lack of practice/bad timing/etc when it can easily be done better.
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j.hall

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2006, 03:58:59 PM »

the secret club has two drummers, 3 guitar players, 2 bass players, and 4 singers.  when we write/record it's a check your ego at the door situation.

it's not uncommon for the bass player to grab my guitar and just show me what he's thinking.  i've grabbed the sticks ad played drums.  we've all changed lyrics and vocals on jeff.  there is a difference in doing something maliciously and doing it to simply improve the recording/song.

flushing out parts and overdubs needs to happen quickly before ideas are lost.  
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Frob

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2006, 04:42:05 PM »

but if this is the situation then make sure that it does in fact sound better. things like switching playing styles (with bass) for example going from some one who plays with his fingers to some one who uses a pick makes the whole thing sound mutch difrant. its up to you and the band which one sounds better.

scott volthause

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2006, 04:56:55 PM »

I do intend to do what's best for the final product, in the end. But that doesn't mean I won't give the guy a shot. The problems are:

1 ) I've played both guitar and bass for a long time, and the drummer in this current band is one who I have shared a lot of time with in many other bands. We click and read each others mind whether I'm playing  guitar or bass. So I would say I have a slightly unfair advantage to locking in with this drummer.

2 ) Stylistically, we're on opposite ends of the playing spectrum. I'm more of a slinky rock / funk / dub style, and he's more hi-fi stacatto. He seems to overplay in areas that need to be laid back, and then lets notes ring out through sections that are build-ups. I really don't understand that one.

3 ) I wrote these songs. I knew the moment the guitar riff came out of my fingers what it was that I wanted the bass line to sound like. Now I'll take a serious 'Shame on me' for not being able to communicate exactly what it is that I want to hear him play, but the times that I have tried to get him to play what's in my head (and what I would actually play in a particular section) it comes out of his hands... well... different.

Anyhow, I didn't mean to turn this thread into a thing about me.

I think Fibes may have nailed it for me though. I'll do my own versions of the bass lines, and let the band as a whole decide which version they prefer of each song. I may actually be shocked and "De-Egoized" in the end... And maybe that's not such a bad thing.
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maxim

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2006, 06:40:39 PM »

dennis wrote:

"I can't see where I said that you said...."


you didn't

it wasn't directed at you

i was agreeing with you

sorry for the misunderstanding

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Dave Martin

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2006, 07:32:23 PM »

scott volthause wrote on Wed, 25 January 2006 12:07

So what do I do when I can play the bass parts better than the bass player can?


You should also make sure that a 'better' bass part fits the sound of the band better than the one the bass player plays...

I've been playing bass in studios for more than 30 years; I'm fairly opinionated, and therefore think that I'm good at it.  Cool And over the years, there have been numerous times when I 'knew' that I could play a part cleaner, more accurately, with a better tone, or whatever - than the bass player on the session. And (fortunately, I've learned to shut the hell up) once the song was together, realized that the bass part that I didn't like earlier was where the magic in the song lives...

And it's not just session with young bands and inexperienced musicians - I've had the same thought listening to Bob Babbitt play on a session out here. And only later did I realize that Bob's part was perfect all along...

The point? That you perhaps shouldn't make the call that a part needs to be replaced until it becomes necessary to complete the song.
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maxim

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2006, 10:33:01 PM »

psychologically speaking, it should be the absolute last resort measure, unless you specifically come in as a producer-musician, and it's understood from the beginning that you might do that

even then, egos will get hurt

i guess that's why i don't like being in a 'band'

i prefer to 'play' with other musicians

that way, i'm sure that i won't need to replace anything

and everyone understands that as the artist-producer, i have final say

egos still get hurt... oh well

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j.hall

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2006, 01:05:15 AM »

getting things right as a songwriter is so far from the last resort.......

seriously, if you are the writer, you need to put kid gloves on and sit down and have a chat.......NEVER hurt some one's feelings just because you want to play his parts

if the people in the band are not grown up enough to sit down and talk this through then no one can help you.

start the conversation, see where that leads.  be honest, but don't be hurtful.
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malice

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Re: write, play, track, mix...yourself
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2006, 04:23:42 AM »

FWIW,

We are all more or less able to play another instrument. Not everyone can play enough of another ax to be worthy of recording it, but sometimes it's incredible how it can open your and your band mate's mind to change instruments.

We do that all the time when we record or rehearse.

I'm a bass player. I can play a bit of drum, and some keys and gtr.
The sax player is a fair bass player (plus he has this killa musicmaster bass too short for me to play on), he's a killer mandoline player as well
The guitarist  is a good bass player but he's not as good mandolin as the sax (hehe)
the drummer can sing (LOL)
our singer is the best arranger of us all (plus she's my wife)

One day we exchanged instruments and realise that gave us something different but interesting. We composed a song just jamming like this.

Thanx to that, playing someone else part was NEVER a problem. We just passed the ego thing and we know that it is fairly possible your pal has a better groove for some strange reason. Never a problem. Only the result counts.

Learning to leave your ego at the door is often the key to interesting music.

as I said, FWIW Smile

malice
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