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[Adam Dempsey]

The battery for the internal memory in our Sony DPS V77 is about to die (message scolls across the screen and many functions are not, um, functioning).

Of course I don't wish to lose my user presets or write them all down (with up to 5 pages of parameters each) and the Sony manual says to back up the memory via a midi filer (removing the battery will wipe the memory).

So my question is: Can I simply record this data via midi to a DAW, replace the battery, then play the midi back in to the Sony??

Maybe an odd question for those in the know, but I've never had to tread the Midi path and I'm sure others have had to deal with this before.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

[Bob Olhsson]

Yes, I've done this several times.

[bobkatz]

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 15 January 2006 20:35

The battery for the internal memory in our Sony DPS V77 is about to die (message scolls across the screen and many functions are not, um, functioning). Of course I don't wish to lose my user presets or write them all down (with up to 5 pages of parameters each) and the Sony manual says to back up the memory via a midi filer (removing the battery will wipe the memory). So my question is: Can I simply record this data via midi to a DAW, replace the battery, then play the midi back in to the Sony?? Maybe an odd question for those in the know, but I've never had to tread the Midi path and I'm sure others have had to deal with this before. Thanks in advance for any insights.

Yes, you can! Absolutely. I've done it. It's sad that so many of these older devices depend on a battery instead of an EEProm. You've just reminded me that my own V77 has some stuff in it that I haven't saved. I made a custom sub-sonic simulator out of one of their presets that's pretty darn good for special effects and explosions.

Make sure the DAW can accept Sysex... this is all a sysex dump and restore technique. It is nerve-racking,though, to think that all  your custom presets depend on a transfer that you have never done before. Good luck!

My suggestion. Test the Sysex dump/restore technique on another digital device in your armory before you do it on the Sony.

BK

[Adam Dempsey]

Hi Bob,
thanks, glad I jogged your own memory.

*checks the SADiE breakout box* um, no MIDI DIN - how would you do it? Not sure if we still have the JL cooper midi/TC box...

(Yes the subharmonic generator I found useful sometimes, just a touch blended in from up to 2 frequencies).

[bobkatz]

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 15 January 2006 21:48

Hi Bob, thanks, glad I jogged your own memory. *checks the SADiE breakout box* um, no MIDI DIN - how would you do it? Not sure if we still have the JL cooper midi/TC box... (Yes the subharmonic generator I found useful sometimes, just a touch blended in from up to 2 frequencies).

If you have a SADiE, you may have a motherboard with a built-in MIDI interface so you don't even have to buy one.

If you have the same SADiE-approved motherboard as I do you will find a 15 pin D-sub connector on there that is also known as the "Game port". It's right next to the microphone and line output jacks. Pick up the Turtle Beach midi adapter cable for it, $19.99 at New Egg or CompUSA. Then I'll give you instructions on how to enable the MIDI in the BIOS.

But it's up to you to find the sequencer program that can store the sysex. I'm PC-illiterate when it comes to sequencers. I use Performer on the Mac for storing sysex.

You can always buy Pro Tools LE with the 002. It has a built in midi port.

Or a game board on a PCI card with MIDI.  Or a USB to MIDI adapter.

BK

[masterlab]

No need for a full blown sequencer.
Quite some time age I searched the net for an easy to handle sysex recorder and found "SEx.exe" (I'll attach it as zip). Freeware, easy to use no bells, no whistles.
And believe me I tried at least 15-20 apps  

Search for "Jack Deckard"

[Adam Dempsey]

Thanks for the link.

I downloaded & installed the SysEx. When I try opening it,  without the Sony connected, I get "no midi output device found."

There's no D-sub connector that I recognise... unless it's the 15 pin orange coloured connector (a row of 8 above a row of 7) which is above the mini jack mic input on the Sadie 5 PC..  

So I grab one of those adaptor cables & run that connector from the Sony midi out & that will enable activating SysEx? (Surely, not to the soundcard inside the PC - it's racked up, so checking the innards takes some time).

Then the data transfer is done via user controls in SysEx or is that invisible to the user?
Then change the battery then load back to the Sony via the same connector but to the Sony's midi In & that's automatic?

(Well I hope spelling it out like this makes it easy for someone in future...)

[bobkatz]

Adam Dempsey wrote on Fri, 20 January 2006 01:32

Thanks for the link. I downloaded & installed the SysEx. When I try opening it,  without the Sony connected, I get "no midi output device found." There's no D-sub connector that I recognise... unless it's the 15 pin orange coloured connector (a row of 8 above a row of 7) which is above the mini jack mic input on the Sadie 5 PC..

That's the connector, next to the mini jacks. I have a cable from Midi Man I just bought for $30 some odd dollars, but it turns out I don't need it. I'll sell it to you for $10 plus shipping if you want. It terminates in two MIDI males on a 3 foot snake, rather inconvenient if you want to extend it. They expect you to have an external midi interface close to the computer.

You have to go into the BIOS to enable this functionality.

Bob

[Adam Dempsey]

Thanks for the offer, Bob. We'll use our Echo Layla system box, which I forgot about, as the MIDI/PC interface (connectors hidden at rear of the computer room rack).

[Adam Dempsey]

Ok, I'm still confused as there's barely anything in the way of user controls:
The Sony & the PC are connected via MIDI.
SysEx (v4.17) is open on the PC.
Under the "Special" menu I've set MIDI settings to MIDI in Layla24 & MIDI out Layla 24.
Under the "Dump" menu there's a list of what I assume are sequencer/keyboards only - no Sony or external device.
The Sony unit's MIDI settings are set to Bulk Tx. I start the "Execute" function & the display tells me its transmitting & counts through the user banks.
The SySex doesn't show that it's receiving anything.

Where should the files go?? How do I make 'em go there?
Are they stored in SyEx format?

I'm paranoid I've already dumped my user presets irretrievably into the ether.

Some specifics please?

[bobkatz]

Adam Dempsey wrote on Tue, 24 January 2006 01:11

Ok, I'm still confused as there's barely anything in the way of user controls: The Sony & the PC are connected via MIDI. SysEx (v4.17) is open on the PC. Under the "Special" menu I've set MIDI settings to MIDI in Layla24 & MIDI out Layla 24. Under the "Dump" menu there's a list of what I assume are sequencer/keyboards only - no Sony or external device. The Sony unit's MIDI settings are set to Bulk Tx. I start the "Execute" function & the display tells me its transmitting & counts through the user banks. The SySex doesn't show that it's receiving anything. Where should the files go?? How do I make 'em go there? Are they stored in SyEx format? I'm paranoid I've already dumped my user presets irretrievably into the ether. Some specifics please?

No, you haven't dumped anything into the ether yet! And I believe you have the right procedure down on the Sony already.  I don't know this PC program, but "dump" is usually used for transmit, not receive, so maybe you are in the transmit menu of the program instead of the receive. Obviously, you want to "record" the sysex dump from the Sony box. Does the PC program have a Sysex "receive" or "load" menu or something similar? It should go into receive mode waiting for something from the Sony box and then indicate that it is recording. Some programs will go into record, then you hit the dump (or execute) on the Sony and the program will show the incoming indication, and then you have to hit stop manually, just like a tape recorder.

BK

[Adam Dempsey]

Thanks again, Bob.

Yep all understood, just that the SysEx only has the functions:

- Transmit File (lists transmit SysExfile, Remap on send, Save buffer at (end of file or menu command)

- Dump Request (lists the keyboards Alesis, Ensoniq, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, etc and their specific voice/menu functions)

and Special (the MIDI I/O & set up options)

Bob Olhsson, can you confirm you used this SysEx with a Sony box?

*assumes others are reading with interest..*

[bobkatz]

Adam Dempsey wrote on Tue, 24 January 2006 19:08

Thanks again, Bob. Yep all understood, just that the SysEx only has the functions: - Transmit File (lists transmit SysExfile, Remap on send, Save buffer at (end of file or menu command) - Dump Request (lists the keyboards Alesis, Ensoniq, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, etc and their specific voice/menu functions)

Hmmm.... I think this program may be dedicated to those keyboards and may not be able to just record a generic sysex. Is it a librarian? You don't need a librarian

I'm sure there is a simple MIDI app for the PC that can record your Sysex with no fuss. Do you have Pro Tools? That will work, too.

BK

[Adam Dempsey]

Ok, we've done it:

on SysEx:
'Dump Request', using either of the Yamaha selections, set to ch ID 1

On the Sony:
select: System/MIDI/
'Basic' set up set to Ch1 & MIDI function set to Out (not Thru).
'Bulk-Tx' set to U1+U2 (or ALL) and 'Execute' counts through as mentioned and now shows data received on SysEx (about 96kb).

Transmitting back out via 'Transmit File' on SysEx indicates as such via the bars at the bottom of the window.

Having done tried all that, I suspect I've lost my user presets as the Sony wont function when accessing the User banks, which also show nothing, all indicating the battery is dead.  

And now, having removed the lid to replace the battery - I can't remove the existing 3v battery from its housing on the board!
[edit: done with a small flat head screwdriver to lever it out. On power up I got a blank screen and zero functionality, therefore I had to re-initialize to factory settings by holding Save & Enter during power up].

One nice thing to see, however, is the SBM chip. I'm still not sure as to the quoted 52bit internal dsp, not being an integer multiple of 8.

But maybe I've helped save somebody else's data...

Hey, can we share presets?  

[bobkatz]

Adam Dempsey wrote on Tue, 24 January 2006 21:49

But maybe I've helped save somebody else's data... Hey, can we share presets?

I'm so sorry you were too late to keep yours, Adam. You can have my presets if you'd like. But I haven't used the box in about two years, so it's a ticking timebomb. There was a time when I was real proud of the tweaks I had done to its reverb presets, but frankly, my TC 6000 and the various convolution reverbs are so much better than that Sony that I ceased to use its reverb several years ago. It would make a nice auxiliary verb for use in a mixing situation though.

Of all the custom presets that I had done over the years, the only one that I cannot seem to duplicate with other gear that I have is the subharmonic synthesis. The Sony actually does not generate true subharmonics, by the way, just low frequency noise in time with the source. But it's nice for sound effects, gunshots and explosions.

BK