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Author Topic: At what point is "intervention" indicated?  (Read 9278 times)

t(h)ik

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2006, 04:28:51 AM »

Samc wrote on Mon, 09 January 2006 01:37

Fenris Wulf wrote on Sun, 08 January 2006 23:25

electrical wrote on Sun, 08 January 2006 00:33

Totally off topic, but if we were talking in person I'd hold your feet to the fire about this. My Lai is one of the best documented of hundreds of village purges like it.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. I was irritated by what seemed like gratuitous America-bashing.


It's not bashing if it's true...........and, unfortunately, it is the truth!



Buuhhlllshit!
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jimmyjazz

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2006, 01:12:14 PM »

Come on, dwoz.  'fess up.  The whole band is you, right?

At least it was good for a chuckle or three.
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rankus

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2006, 03:13:14 PM »



After reading this whole thread (out of amazement) I can only add:

HUH?
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dwoz

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2006, 04:00:19 PM »

jimmyjazz wrote on Mon, 09 January 2006 23:12

Come on, dwoz.  'fess up.  The whole band is you, right?

At least it was good for a chuckle or three.



Absolutely not.  I am nowhere near any of that.


As a moderator in Song Critique, I think there are many more efficient ways to make a point, than to cut an example out of whole cloth.  


I can't even get my CAPE work done, never mind pull together this kind of thing!

dwoz
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marcel

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2006, 02:16:12 AM »

I still can't decide if that stuff or the dude that posted it is for real or not, but it made me think of a question for electrical...

At what point does your stated 'hands off' approach to the production aspect of the recording process end with respect to a band or a player's performance?  If I understand you correctly, you are not about to say to a client "I want you to sing it like this", but do you often (or ever) say "Hey, man, I think you can do that (a lot) better"?  Or, "You guys should rehearse to the point that you can all land on the 'one' together"?

After listening to that guy's material and reading the associated post, I don't feel unclear about the fact that that was some of the worst 'mixing' I have ever heard.  Most could do better in 5 min. of building a rough mix during tracking...
But I am unclear as to whether, if the performances had been great (primarily the drummer and the singer, although the first couple of bars sounded like everybody was on a different planet), I might have LIKED this stuff.  I think maybe I would have - awfulness may have become 'art' or at least 'experimentalism'...

Can you comment on this?  

Thanks, Marcel
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malice

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2006, 11:11:01 AM »

maxim wrote on Mon, 09 January 2006 09:19

there are some people in marshland who don't live under the bridge, but they're still not the cooks

all you should really ask of someone is how it makes them feel, and you should interpret those responses through their filter, in order to gain feedback on how your craft actually performs in real life

next time, you try again

technical suggestions, for most part, don't work, which is where eric is right




Somehow, you are right as there is a large subjective part in a mix. I myself remain convinced a good mix is often a mix that holds imperfections that will provide vibe and character.

But still there are objective mistakes that can be commented in a critique.

As for the "Marshland" comment, make no mistake, there are more "cooks" than you think.

Although we're lacking the "short order" type ...

malice

PS: My throat is killing me, but I'm not coughing, can you give me some free advise ?

bbkong

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2006, 12:05:56 PM »

maxim wrote on Mon, 09 January 2006 00:19


there are some people in marshland who don't live under the bridge, but they're still not the cooks



That's an interesting comment in light of the fact that the Saloon looks mysteriously identical to the Womb, same topics, same banter, just not as funny and with worse punctuation.

Building fences instead of bridges. hehe


Well, I just got back from a poor backward island nation where I saved fifty people from going over a cliff on a bus and rebuilt the government infrastructure in my spare time. For free.


And I have this to say about the mix: as subjective as mixing can get, there are still basic tenets that apply and some things are simply song-killing no-no's. Everybody starts out somewhere and it's nice to be able to tap into the knowledge of the more learned when taking those first baby steps.

No matter what they suggest, if you can't glean some hint of direction in your mix, then maybe it's time to step back over to the deep fat fryer and go a little easier on the salt.


.02
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jimmyjazz

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2006, 12:12:04 PM »

I realize that the thread in question is likely an elaborate hoax, but there's still a song and a mix to discuss, whether or not the original intentions were pure.

My first impression?  The song wasn't very compelling.  The performances weren't very good, either, and the mix didn't help, but who cares?  The song just didn't grab me, and I doubt it could, regardless of performance or mix.

So, what's the point?

The verse melody was mindlessly repetitive, to the point that it was almost dissonant at times.  ("Dissonant" is the wrong word, but you get my drift.  Repeating the same melody over the I, the IV, and the V chord, among others, is rarely a recipe for harmonic success.)  The lyrics didn't say anything that hasn't been said ten thousand times before (but better).  And, yes, the performances were distracting and the mix(es) further exacerbated the problem.

So, in my opinion, there is little hope.  Welcome to the club.
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Larrchild

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2006, 01:53:08 PM »

Here's my advice to the dude on getting a better mix on that song.

1.Turn down speaker volume.
2.Pull all faders down.
3.Push up bass and drum faders up  to 60% vu
4. Set rest of instuments (gtr etc) to 80%vu
5. Set vocal fader to peak at 100% vu
6. Now turn up your speakers. You have a better mix than any of those 3.

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maxim

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2006, 06:24:17 PM »

denis wrote:

"As for the "Marshland" comment, make no mistake, there are more "cooks" than you think."

the swipe at marsh was just a part of the funny games we've been playing

everyone is a "cook" both in the swamp and here

my point is that they are not THE cooks of that particular dish

i, personally, had some good and constructive criticism from the song critique forum

however, what i put up there were not the final mixes, but the mixes in progress

and the most constructive thing thing was gleaming people's gut reaction

denis also wrote:

"PS: My throat is killing me, but I'm not coughing, can you give me some free advise ?"

i can, go and see your local doctor
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maxim

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Re: At what point is "intervention" indicated?
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2006, 09:21:34 PM »

bbkong wrote:

"Well, I just got back from a poor backward island nation where I saved fifty people from going over a cliff on a bus and rebuilt the government infrastructure in my spare time. For free"

good for you

he also wrote:

' as subjective as mixing can get, there are still basic tenets that apply and some things are simply song-killing no-no's. Everybody starts out somewhere and it's nice to be able to tap into the knowledge of the more learned when taking those first baby steps."

agreed

and

"... go a little easier on the salt."

au contraire, it should ALL be taken with a large grain of salt

ymmv, of course
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