R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All   Go Down

Author Topic: "Major" art and "minor" art...  (Read 11759 times)

Linear

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2006, 07:51:57 pm »

jetbase wrote on Fri, 06 January 2006 11:34

define "art"... just kidding.

the best advice i received about how to approach engineering was "don't fuck it up". maybe that's an art form to some people.

glenn


I'd say that's more professional competence. I'd expect an engineer or doctor to 'not fuck it up', but that doesn't neccessarily make them artisans.

Chris
Logged
http://www.linear-recording.com.au

"Fashions change, the laws of physics don't"
Steve Dove

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2006, 08:49:48 pm »

chris wrote:

"While I do think that Maxim is retarded"

nice play of the ball

", if his music is 'major' in his opinion, and if others in that genre appreciate it then it is most definitely not 'minor'."

i didn't put up that preposterous distinction

imo, my music is art

whether it's good or bad or entertaining is not up to me to decide

"Mais, ayant dit tout cela, que sais-je vraiment?"

et voila



Logged

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2006, 09:15:05 pm »

chris wrote:

"There should be no debate that an 'engineer' that records another artists work for remuneration is not an artist himself."

i like the fascist tone of that statement

"I personally have always considered myself an artist, but not THE artist."

bill mueller

"As far as the last record goes, aside from co-writing, co-arranging and even playing instruments, I would say that picking out which instrument to be played that will best suit the track, from which bass, which guitar, which amp, which drum, which cymbal, tuning each drum myself, deciding how best to record each and every instrument, deciding where they sit in the mix, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum, are all parts of the 'art' of recording. These are not merely technical abilities. These are matters of instinct, perception, taste, experience, skill and talent, and that is what makes them art, not science, IMHO."

jj blair

"The artist hires a producer, the producer hires an engineer, and they all work together to make something fantastic which will resonate in the now, and let the chips fall where they may. It's all art, and everything is connected."

eric vincent

"I personally believe that engineering is an art"

ross hogarth

"Engineering is an art, or a science, and both"

miles hendrix

"Obviously I agree..."

william wittman

"Of course Producing is an art form. And in many ways, although more science-related, Engineering can be an art form too."

terry manning

i could go on

but there MUST BE NO DEBATE!










Logged

Bob Olhsson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3968
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2006, 09:22:53 pm »

I don't think there is any connection between art and commerce at all!

Some people are pretty good at one or the other and a tiny few are really good at both.

Tidewater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3816
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2006, 09:31:54 pm »

here we go..


M
Logged
Time Magazine's 2007 Man of the Year

chrisj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 959
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2006, 10:21:50 pm »

McAllister wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 14:23


Art is.

Let's go make some.



The next question (and a very different one, by these terms) is: "Major' craft vs 'minor' craft?

I'm more and more drawn to the 'craft' point of view as I work on developing my ability to do exactly what's needed, and especially as I practice my ability to subjugate my notion of what's needed and cram it into the tight box of what other people I'm working with need from me.

Which makes me a budding goddamned studio hack.

But there have always been goddamned studio hacks I totally like. Drums, Jim Keltner, Rick Marotta, Purdie. Guitar like Larry Carlton or Dean Parks. Bass like- well, James Jamerson blurs the line, as did Purdie, because he would do stuff that was so much like him and exert such a powerful directing force that it's less like a studiohack.

But to me that's the distinction between art and craft. Art, you can lay it on the listener that they just don't get your concept, are too uptight, whatever. You can weasel. Craft, you give up part of the freedom of choice of pure Art because you're obligated to do stuff that is competent in some specific ways, but in return for that you can claim some objective virtues- like "well, you might not like this but by God I played it properly and there aren't any mistakes".

I did Art guitar leads on 'If This Is Where It Is' and it was too noodly though it hit some really great moments and woulda worked. When I redid them I did the whole thing with the intent of doubletracking everything very tightly, a total nod to Craft, and I didn't have any further trouble over the parts. I actually think the guitar work was way stronger that way, though it is also quite a bit less like 'woo, check ME out!'. I like to think that those who care would listen to it and go 'yeaaaaah'.

In a way, art means those who DON'T care might listen and go 'whoah!'. I gave that up, to an extent. It wasn't wrong for that gig (Team Campfire)- a lot of people really liked that track. Most of them didn't say anything about the electric guitars, but there are quite a few places where the focus is on electric guitar and the ball isn't dropped. It's not grabbed away from, say, the lead vocal, but it's not dropped either.

Craft is like that kind of teamwork.

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2006, 10:52:11 pm »

bob o wrote:

"The purpose of copyright is to encourage the creation of major art by giving every creator an equity position in everything they create rather than forcing them to rely strictly on some employer or patron for financial support."

maybe, it is now, but let's keep in mind the history

copyright law was created by the catholic church to protect the bible from being interpreted (even though, that's how the gospels were written in the first place... not he first hypocritical act from the vatican, nor the last)

"It is the ONLY property right guaranteed to individuals in the US constitution."

and i'm sure happy to collect the monies owed to me, and  enjoy moral rights over my work



"This idea that copyright is purely for the purpose of enriching media corporations..."


remember morris levy?

he was small fry

" large media corporations would be the major beneficiaries of any "leveled playing field" where all artists get paid the same government mandated royalty with no exclusive relationships allowed. "

this time, i agree

Logged

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2006, 11:01:29 pm »

bbbkong wrote:

"Ah, Linear. hehe

An Aussie with a brain."

surprise.... a racist without one
Logged

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2006, 11:20:43 pm »

bob o wrote:

"I don't think there is any connection between art and commerce at all!"

art dealers might disagree, as will, perhaps, most publishers

the only ones who might agree with you are artists themselves

which field are you in?

"Some people are pretty good at one or the other and a tiny few are really good at both. "

sad but true
Logged

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2006, 11:21:58 pm »

chris j wrote:

"Craft is like that kind of teamwork."

there's a lot to be said for craft
Logged

wwittman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7712
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2006, 01:05:53 am »

The only difference between major art and minor art is the minor sounds sadder.

It's all relative.
Logged
William Wittman
Producer/Engineer
(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...)

rnicklaus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3859
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2006, 01:14:50 am »

wwittman wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 22:05

The only difference between major art and minor art is the minor sounds sadder.

It's all relative.


Or

Major Art is in the army and minor Art is 13.

And yes they are relatives.
Logged
R.N.

Tidewater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3816
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2006, 01:50:22 am »

-rim shot sample-


M
Logged
Time Magazine's 2007 Man of the Year

John Ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3028
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2006, 02:02:27 am »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 21:22

I don't think there is any connection between art and commerce at all!

Some people are pretty good at one or the other and a tiny few are really good at both.


I can relate to this in that, I have always been a shitty business man. I have always hated dealing with money and I've always hated the "dog and Pony show" aspect of the music biz. Having said that,I make my living doing it some how. I think it's because people other than me are out selling {promoting} me.

I never seem to have a problem coming up with a tune or showing up at a studio to do the creative stuff. {play,print,mix etc.}. So, in that regard, I see what your saying.{maybe that's not what you meant though.}

Ivan.
Logged
"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 

malice

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 799
Re: "Major" art and "minor" art...
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2006, 03:21:41 am »

maxim wrote on Fri, 06 January 2006 01:00

malice wrote:

"In France, we had a very popular songwriter and singer name Serge Gainsbourg that even you americans might have heard of that made a distinction between "minor" art and "major" art that was quite controversial at the time."

in my mind serge walks a very thin line between art and entertainment, and, one thing, for sure, he's a major provocateur


those distinctions are meaningless

there is good art and there is bad art, and there's suff in between


To be perfectly clear to you and others, there is no scale of value or quality between "major" and "minor" art, you can have good "minor" art and bad "major" art. This terminology was used for the sole purpose of demonstration by Mr SG.
I was merely trying to elaborate on what Bob was saying.


Quote:


"like Bob O wife's work"

i really wish the poor woman was left out of this discussion (by her ex-husband in the first place)


Why, you don't like sculptors ?

Quote:


besides, that's a psychofantic assumption


http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/search?p=psychofantic& searchmode=normal&x=25&y=13



Quote:


"I would consider most of the music we are working on in our craft as "marketing" more than "art"."

i feel sorry for you, but speak for yourself


Can you post some of the work you have done, I'll be curious about that.
Don't feel sorry for me, being realistic does not make me sad. And I had the chance to work with real artists myself so I consider myself lucky.

Quote:


"I might remind you that we, as recordists and mixers, are NOT artists"

once again, speak for yourself, you'll find there's a whole bunch of people in another forum who'll disagree with you


They can disagree with me and be wrong forrever ...


Quote:


" Your music is free if you, as an artist decide (or not) it is so"

ahhh, so you did read some of my posts

i'm glad you agree



Don't tell me this as if they were literature. Now try to do better than read some of mine, try to understand the meaning of them.

malice
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All   Go Up