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[Colin Frangos]

"Fibes" (if that is your real name) wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 10:43

The dog is turning grey.

This is some kind of NSA code, isn't it?

[j.hall]

yes.

[mcsnare]

j.,
I couldn't agree with you more om all the points you have made. You've saved me lot's of time typing.
I'll add one more thing: I think S.A. does have a style whether he admits it or not, and that is very much like a documentary film maker. That's not a bad thing in my book. I love a good documentary. I also like to see stuff like King Cong.
Dave McNair

[pg666]

Quote:

I think S.A. does have a style whether he admits it or not, and that is very much like a documentary film maker

i can see this for a lot of those records, but i've also heard Albini recordings with some pretty outrageous effects and overdubs going on too. hardly 'mere documents'.

basically, i think people hear 'surfer rosa' and 'in utero' and conclude that's 'his sound'. that's probably happened to all of you too (and it's definitely happened to me.. on a musician level at least). i like to assume most people are more complex than that...

[scott volthause]

This whole idea of a rock band sounding "natural", e.g. "a band in a room" is really a load of crock, no?

I like to see bands in smaller clubs.

The dude at FOH is practically deaf. The kick pounds you in the chest, the bass rumbles under your feet. The guitars rip your head off.

This is the "natural" sound of rock and roll to me.

[pg666]

yes.

the 'live' sound you hear at a club and the raw sounds that actually come out of people's instruments are two very different things.

i'm more interested in the latter, personally.

[xonlocust]

scott volthause wrote on Thu, 12 January 2006 13:02

This whole idea of a rock band sounding "natural", e.g. "a band in a room" is really a load of crock, no?

well, no more so than your definition of it.  what if the context is seeing house shows or other super small venues with nothing but the vocals going through a PA?  

your taste may be informed by the "small clubs" vs "arena size" - and there's yet another level smaller than that. to each his own totally - everyone has thier own idea of what sounds badass.

Quote:

The dude at FOH is practically deaf. The kick pounds you in the chest, the bass rumbles under your feet. The guitars rip your head off. This is the "natural" sound of rock and roll to me.

i'm just messing with you here - so, you like your records to sound like they were made by a deaf guy?

[scott volthause]

xonlocust wrote on Thu, 12 January 2006 14:36

well, no more so than your definition of it.  what if the context is seeing house shows or other super small venues with nothing but the vocals going through a PA?

Using this argument, then, one would never need more than a band, a PA for the singer, and a binaural recording system to capture that. As soon as you start close micing instruments to achieve this goal, you've completely broken down the paradigm of "band in a room."

Quote:

i'm just messing with you here - so, you like your records to sound like they were made by a deaf guy?

I've heard quite a few good sounding shows mixed by a guy who literally can't hear much of anything anymore. Would he make a good record? Probably not.  

(edited for spelling)

[pg666]

Quote:

Using this arguement, then, one would never need more than a band, a PA for the singer, and a binaural recording system to capture that. As soon as you start close micing instruments to acchive this goal, you've completely broken down the paradigm of "band in a room."

[to anyone] raise your hand if this type of purist recording has genuinely made you feel like you were there in the room?

*crickets chirping*

there's more to live sound than what goes in your ears. the sound vibrates through your bones. your ears are probably reaching their maximum spl capabilities. you are able to make sense of individual sounds simply because you can actually see the people making them.

this is why i don't think multi-mic'ing/multi-tracking/etc is automatically abandoning reality. to me, they help you get closer (if that's what you want)

[scott volthause]

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to that, except to say, continue making records that sound good to you, and I will do the same.

[j.hall]

how does any of this relate to compression?

[pg666]

it relates to the original poster's "records that fail from sounding too natural" point. sorta.

[edited for stupidity]

[NelsonL]

scott volthause wrote on Thu, 12 January 2006 11:46

I've heard quite a few good sounding shows mixed by a guy who literally can't hear much of anything anymore.

Make sure to let him know!

Heh.

[syncopation]

j.hall wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 22:04

jimmy eat world - static prevails (cut by mark trombino) sounds like crap to me. jimmy eat world - clarity (cut by mark trombino) only a few years later then static prevails mark trombino has honed his craft and presents a beautiful record.  brilliantly compressed, IMO.  full of vibe, full of charm....that record is amazing.  it's tender, yete rocking, just like the songs. jimmy eat world - bleed american (cut by mark trombino) this is kick you in the teeth rock n roll the band is presenting a much harder edge and mark just slam dunks the mixes.  are they compressed?  practically crushed......and it just explodes out of the speakers and makes you smile and think "now this is rock n roll"

Wow, you went the absolute opposite direction I would have taken. Yes, Mark's mixes get slicker each time, but I think it took something away. Ditto for getupkids. Yes, its more rock 'n roll, but some of the rawness, the real edge, is gone. Good for them, now they have radio play. Is it due to compression? Maybe to some extent. Its almost as if Tom L-A mixed the last one. I'm sure they got what they were looking for on bleed american. It's done real well for them.

J.-Do you feel the same way about Braid? I mean unlistenable.

-Brian

[j.hall]

mark trombino hasn't worked with jimmy eat world since bleed american.  i think what they have done without him has been fairly bad.

that braid album is pretty rough, but it isn't unlistenable.  

j.robbins has come a long way since he cut the frame and canvass.  have you heard anything he has done recently?

you can like raw uncompressed records all you want, i'm not trying to convince people that comrpessed rock n roll is for every body.

i will tell you this......comrpessed rock n roll is here to stay.  i haven't cut a record in 2 years that the band asked for less compression.  i'm fairly light on it as it is, and they are always asking for more.....louder, more aggressive, in your face.  honestly, you can't deliver what they want without compression, you just can't do it.....i've tried.