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Author Topic: Patch point cleaning question  (Read 4761 times)

duskb

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Patch point cleaning question
« on: March 17, 2011, 04:27:07 pm »

I'm dealing with a Trident 80B that has severely corroded Mosses and Mitchell patch points (they're green). Burnishing is not an option we can consider anymore.

Some questions:
1. How bad is it to remove the PCB cards and soak them and the points in "Tarnx" (or equivalent) to dissolve corrosion.

2. Does anyone have experience re-plating worn patch points, is this possible?

3. Is there an appropriate sub for the original M&M points used in those Series 80 consoles?

Any ideas? I've gone down quite a few avenues and it's starting to get real lonely.

Dusk Bennett
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Dusk Bennett
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Award Winning Engineering
www.duskbennett.com

radardoug

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 03:05:29 am »

Can you get the whole pcb into an ultrasonic bath? Then do some serious cleaning.
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duskb

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 11:47:34 am »

Can you get the whole pcb into an ultrasonic bath? Then do some serious cleaning.

I need to research where to get one of these things. I know Charlie Bolois has one in Burbank that's big enough to work for this but he has to charge a fee to use it (of course). We were hoping to handle this in house because we have to clean each card and return it on the spot. No (significant) downtime allowed.

For the record, for other Trident 80 owners facing this dilemma, I contacted Mosses and Mitchell to get their take on it. Though they do not support the Trident Series 80 right angle patch point anymore it turns out they do have substitute "straight" blades that can be inserted in place of worn down tip and ring blades. Though it requires modification to the point, the card, and affects the structural rigidity of the system, it will work and at the end of the day you still have 3 of the 5 blades supporting the point.

We're going to try it and see how it works.
Dusk
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Dusk Bennett
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Award Winning Engineering
www.duskbennett.com

michaeldtech

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 08:30:28 pm »

Have you tried some loose Audio Accessories, Neutrik, and Switchcraft PCB mount points and try to make one fit the Trident PCB?  Even if a few contacts need some help with 18 Ga TCW you will have a good mechanical connection.  And didn't they have a tiewrap holding them as well?
If the sleeves are green, no amount of cleaning/lubing will remove a pitted surface causing friction and scratching your patchcords.

OT- are you still able to get the 4-stack EQ pots?
Mike
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duskb

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 01:38:36 pm »

Have you tried some loose Audio Accessories, Neutrik, and Switchcraft PCB mount points and try to make one fit the Trident PCB?  Even if a few contacts need some help with 18 Ga TCW you will have a good mechanical connection.  And didn't they have a tiewrap holding them as well?
If the sleeves are green, no amount of cleaning/lubing will remove a pitted surface causing friction and scratching your patchcords.

OT- are you still able to get the 4-stack EQ pots?
Mike

I spoke with AA though I did not bother to call the other guys since I had it from the owner at AA that no one makes that style anymore. Trident was the only company to utilize that, as I understand it, and Mosses and Mitchell sort of loosely confirmed it.

The workaround I mentioned seem to be the best approach as the blades are otherwise identical to what's already there, they are just missing the right angle contact.

In our case the points are severely damaged from over burnishing, though the corrosion doesn't help. The previous engineer had his students regularly use that thing. He managed to destroy alot of the bay.

We are having a hell of a time finding any parts for this desk. We damaged a few pots last year when we removed all the cards from the faceplates to give them a good cleaning. We had to resort to all sorts of craziness when some got damaged.
Dusk

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Dusk Bennett
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Award Winning Engineering
www.duskbennett.com

michaeldtech

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 03:29:49 pm »

So I guess that all the modern PCB jacks have straight pins out the back?  Just wire to them to the PCB with 16 GA TCW.
Or what about points with wirewrap ends.  They should be able to bend to fit the holes.
I am not a big MM fan so I would be looking at all the different AA or Neutrik style points and figuring how to mount one of those jernts.
There's gotta be a way.
There is no real solution except replacement.  If the contacts are OK, maybe just replace the MM sleeves? 
No amount of cleaning or plating over-burnished green points will give much joy here.
Mike
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rjc

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2011, 09:56:11 am »

No amount of cleaning or plating over-burnished green points will give much joy here.

That's been my experience also. Better to replace (with something a little different if necessary) to get the required functionality.
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Ray Cologon
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Jim Williams

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2011, 10:41:05 am »

As the Gambler said, "you got to know when to hold 'um, know when to fold 'um".

I would stop beating dead horses. I would simply replace the entire bay and start over. Maybe you can fudge another brand into that spot, if not just build 19" rack bays and mount them seperately.
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klett

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 11:12:14 am »

if those points are GREEN and you or someone has used one of those burnishing tools to any great extent then the jacks are shot...  you can TRY to clean and deoxidize them in a ultrasonic tank...  the cards in a Series 80 are kind of long.  The eXile shop in Queens (NYC) has tanks long enough to do those I think.  I have a huge tank but it's 40 Gallons before I can even turn it on...  so tanks exist...  you need to use the correct chemicals to remove the oxidation without eating the metal of the connector itself.  Different metals and cleaning issues need different chemicals and detergents - at different PH....  but the jacks are shot and all you are doing is maybe reducing the problem for a bit if you do it right or making it worse if you do it wrong...  and I have no advice to give re chemicals etc for this

Re-plating is not really an option

the real thing to do is to replace the jacks...  IF you can find the same jacks...  or remake new cards with new PC mount jacks...  or replace the entire bay...  which is a significant project but is technical the better way to go IMHO

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michaeldtech

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Re: Patch point cleaning question
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 09:41:38 pm »

I always had respect for that bay design, even with the longevity limitations of broken sleeves and cold-solder joints.  I just love the design of those vertical cards.  If the cards and conns are OK, why replace the bay?  And just splice new wire onto the frame wiring?  Yucky.  Cut the cards and wire off the edge connectors?  Meh-be not. . .

Dusk, did you make this right somehow? 
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