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Author Topic: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve  (Read 42553 times)

Fletcher

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2006, 08:53:07 AM »

bc184 wrote on Sun, 08 January 2006 13:01

The offer to conduct these blind listening tests is still good. I am open to suggestions on how to set up a test scenario where we could do both single track comparisons as well as multi track (as many tracks as practical) comparison tests. We can do these tests for charity benefit, as we have offered in the past, if you wish. I would like these tests to be about Vintech vs. vintage Neve and/or AMS Neve 1073’s, not because I want to exclude other manufacturers, but because you have consistently singled out our company in discussions on this topic.


Dallas... you're a very boring man.

I laid out chapter and verse methodology for a comparison exactly as you suggested and you punked out.  Please let's not go down that road again unless you want to actually do the test rather than just talk about doing the test.


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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

bc184

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2006, 09:50:06 AM »

Fletcher,
Your cheap "punked out" shots are quite typical of your methodology. I guess I shouldn't expect anything else.

The fact is, the last time I invited you to do tests was during the San Francisco AES show over a year ago (after one of your dissertations about how much our X73 doesn't sound like a 1073).
I wanted to simply put two of our modules next to two vintage 1073's and two AMS Neve's in side by side comparisons in a professional recording and listening environment listening to actual performances of musicians and singers being recorded live. You didn't believe that you could hear significant differences between our gear and the Neve modules in that test scenario.

Really Fletcher, I don't think it's that difficult.
Think of it like this:  Let’s say you are painting a wall in your home and run out of paint half way down the wall. You go to the paint store and they mix up another gallon of paint according to a certain formula for the color you want.

Now if you start painting on the wall where you left off with the old paint, with the two colors side by side, you usually can see some differences. If you paint over the whole wall with the new gallon of paint, you usually have a much harder time seeing the differences compared to the other walls in the room, because they are farther away and more difficult to compare side by side.

I mean honestly Fletcher, most people in the real world only own one or two channels of several different brands of mic preamps anyway. We can record multiple tracks using the Neve, AMS Neve and X73 modules if you wish.... like most folks do.  If you'd like to place the recordings we do in a mix and then try to pick out which is which then that would be great as well.

Why don't you give it a try?

Dallas
 
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Fletcher

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2006, 01:58:42 PM »

Dallas; you're still a very boring man.

You keep spewing the same parlor trick rhetoric... lets put one channel up next to one channel... [and while we're there let's put them out of polarity so we can watch them cancel].

One track, one channel, it's not going to make that much difference... it is the c-u-m-u-l-a-t-i-v-e effect that will illustrate the difference.

I went through this with you a year and a half ago... you wanna fuck around with bullshit tests that will skew the results you go for it... I will not be party to your sham.

Good day sir.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Geoff_T

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2006, 02:37:45 PM »

Hi

Just to add 2c and to emphasise that I have not heard Vintech products nor have a comment about their quality or anything else.

I believe Dallas could spare himself a mountain of grief... and possibly a cross letter from Neve UK... if he just promoted the product as a very good mic pre/compressor/whatever.

What I believe P.O'd Neve is the constant references to their company name in advertisements/posts by cloners.

It's a shame that this topic keeps popping up like a bad penny.

My 2c

Smile
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Geoff Tanner
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bushwick

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2006, 02:58:34 PM »

You know, I love everyone here..


Just thought I'd share a small slice of real world pie. I got two x81's to try out on the advice of Dave Swanson, a mulit-platinum engineer who did a shootout of some Neve and Neveesque stuff sometime back. I wound up buying a pair and loving the dickens out of them. So much so that I just bought another pair. So not sure what all the beef is about but I happen to think they sound quite nice, the eq is amazing.

I have an engineer who works in my studio frequently who said he would be "just fine" if I got rid of most everything else in my rack, pre wise, and just had a bunch more of them. Not that I am about to do that but whatever. I can see his point. Some of my outboard pres can be a bit material dependent but I haven't found something yet that these didn't sound at least very good on.

So not tryin to get in the middle of anything here, just droppin my thoughts in the hat.

Best,
joshua kessler
www.bushwickstudio.com
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Joshua Kessler
bushwick  studio
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Geoff_T

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2006, 04:04:09 PM »

Hi Joshua

I have no doubt, you are right. They most likely are great audio products... but this "sounds EXACTLY like a Neve" is the main bone of contention, whether it's true or not.

Who else is making this claim?

Smile
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Geoff Tanner
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Bubblepuppy

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2006, 12:35:25 AM »

I just recieved my 609CA and its pretty nifty.
I just have to say a few things here guys, why as anyone beating their chests and puffing up like blowfish on this Neve issue.
Who are we trying to protect, dont tell me the Neve name because Rupert doesnt need our help on that one. And i also hope its not the failed Neve corporation that Siemens bought then sold and then AMS/Neve and now bought once again.
Give it a rest, we exist in a industry that constantly sells  hype (oxygenfree copper)/ bullshit(how to play like insert name)/ bling bling(MTV Sucks) and fantasy (win a date w/Pam Anderson).
We take acoustic truth and manipulte/compress/EQ/enhance the image/slice it in pieces/soften the image/control the verticle/resample/pitch pugins as replacement for hardware...SHIT.
And lets talk about parlor tricks,remember quad, anyone remember that Roland device that was supposed to make the image move in a 360 degree field, Aphex type 1 rental rates per minute.And the loss of a steeley dan master because of a dolby screw up.
our whole medium is a parlor trick, the stereo image is a trick our brain plays on us....
Can we please lighten up on this Neve issue.
peace,love,dove baby!
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floodstage

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2006, 07:53:08 PM »

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Geoff_T

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2006, 08:09:06 PM »

I wonder if the topic question of this thread has been answered?

It was about a comparison between BAE 1073's and Neve UK re-issue 1073's.

Not about Vintech, Chandler, et al. Neither of those will drop into a Neve desk.

I have experience of both those units and, of course, the original 1073's dating from the early 70's.

I'm also walking a narrow fence as Robin Porter of Neve UK and Avedis of BAE are both friends of mine.

Let's just say that they are both nice units.

There, that's answered the question (sort of)!

Smile
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Geoff Tanner
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J.J. Blair

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2006, 11:07:57 PM »

I think it's time for a shootout.  I smell another article for me to write.  I did the U47 shootout, now it's time for the 1073, eh?
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Roundbadge

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2006, 01:27:42 PM »

Back on topic:Ive used the Averills and originals side by side in an old 80 series console and in racks.. and it's all good in the hood..many neve purists fooled by the BAE's here.noone can tell the diff..if you need the N word on front ,pay the extra grand or so..if not ,get the Averill's,move on and make records.
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bushwick

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2006, 03:00:15 PM »

JJ-

Hey bro! Do the shootout once and for all and lets see where things lay. Oh and by the way, good hangin with you and Alicia while y'all were here. Great fun. Yeah man, write an article, post some audio clips if you can of something comprehensive. Anyway, to bounce tracks additively using at least a few channels of each of these to get a mix, well that certainly that would be the true litmus test. A great article idea mr JJ.

Best,
joshua

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Joshua Kessler
bushwick  studio
brooklyn, ny
www.bushwickstudio.com

Mike P

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2006, 01:04:51 AM »

Hey J.J.

 I've got both the new Vintech 273 & the x73i in my studio.  I'm one canyon over from you (in the Hollywood Dell, off of Cahuenga and Franklin) and would be happy to help out in any way.

Mike
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J.J. Blair

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2006, 10:14:43 AM »

Thanks, Mic!  I'll PM you, if/when it happens.  -  J.J.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Etch-A-Sketch

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Re: BAE 1073 vs. AMS Neve
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2006, 07:59:38 PM »

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 16:26

 ...I don't know how the BAE stuff is built because I've never seen one to look under the hood....



Hey, for what it's worth... when I was over there they had several vintage 1073s taken apart and were repairing them.  I saw them side by side with a couple BAE 1073s they were building... aside from the fact that the old one's daughter boards looked like the color was fading and they were dusty, all the components looked (to the naked eye) to be identical.  Now i didn't sit down and start comparing resistors or circuit board layouts or anything...

I know we are planning on buying several over here at Megatrax in this first quarter of '06.  The owners, myself and the chief engineer were very pleased with them.  I believe one of our owners is buying some for his house too!

As for which specific brand transformer they are using, I cannot remember the name.  I'm sure if you called them they would tell you.  They are really cool guys.
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Derek Jones
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"I always say I can teach anyone HOW to get a great snare sound, I just can't teach WHAT a great snare sound is.” -Dave Pensado
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