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[bilco]

Harvey, I have read the mic thread at least 4 times now (ok,not ALL of it maybe,) never all in 1 sitting. It is a lot to take in. Thank you very much for passing on your experience to us.  One not so small for me victory: I experimented with recording my Martin Shenandoah D-2832 (translation=boomy assed dreadnaught) at the borderline where nearfield meets far field with a borrowed SM 81 and then a borrowed MXL603S and I liked the results with each.  I used to just aim an SM57 "right at the soundhole" about 4 inches away and then wonder why it was so boomy.  Your "would you put your ear up to the 15" speaker in a PA column" question is a great analogy.  So again, THANKS!

I was reading the thread again today and I have some questions.

When you talk about finding the placement where the mic ideally needs no EQ (for either voice or acoustic guitar) are you talking about the mic as soloed or as blended in with the other mid range stuff that masks it?  What if different songs on the same project are going to have different instrumentation. Let's say we're talking placement of a vocal mic that would end up in an arrangement of acoustic guitar, electric guitar, electric bass, piano and drums for song #1 and a folk/bluegrass ensemble with acoustic guitar, fiddle, mandolin, bass, snare played with brushes for song #2.

If I find a placement that sounds good on my voice soloed and just set it and forget it, can it be tweaked enough after the fact by the mixing engineer with EQ to have it sit properly in both arrangements or am I actually going to have to work even harder at this?  

Same question for acoustic guitar and the MXL603S..... I found a spot that sounds good to me solo, but will that same spot work in the context of a 5 piece rock band with EQ applied after the fact?  I think I read today that you said to try to find a place where it sounds bright, but not shrill and not to worry that it sounds so bright.

I am trying to find the best mic positions and record everything flat.  I figure it should be easier for the mixing engineer to fix something recorded poorly, but flat than it would be to undo a bunch of REALLY bad EQ settings I put on the mic.

It is really hard to be the performer and engineer at the same time.  I really just want to write songs...... If my ship ever comes in, I will drive the 4 hours from Austin to wherever you are outside of Dallas and pay to have YOU make all of these @$^*%#% decisions.  

You must get tired of answering the same questions over and over.........  but I think I know why we, or at least I keep asking them.....  I don't want to make any mistakes; I don't want to lose a take because I had the wrong mic pointed in the wrong direction during a brilliant take by one of my way more talented than me friends.....  I want to have the same amount of knowledge about recording that I  do about whatever boring thing it is I do 9-5 M-F and I know I can't just get it overnight......sigh...

Would you ever consider hosting a home recording seminar at your studio or in Austin?

I LOVE the mic thread, but it is kind of like reading a very well written book about flying and then jumping in a Cessna for the first time.....alone....... without the instructor being next to you to say "No, not THAT button, that makes it stall...."

Thanks,
bilco

[Dave Martin]

bilco wrote on Tue, 27 December 2005 17:06

It is really hard to be the performer and engineer at the same time.  I really just want to write songs...... If my ship ever comes in, I will drive the 4 hours from Austin to wherever you are outside of Dallas and pay to have YOU make all of these @$^*%#% decisions.

Bilco, you ought to give Harvey a call - even if your ship hasn't come in. His rates are (in my opinion) shockingly affordable, and some damn fine sounding records have come out of his place. Besides, everyone SHOULD go to Crum, Texas - at least once....

[Frob]

acourding to his site, his rates are better then most in california. when i am song writting i usualy just set up a single mic and get my idea on tape it would be to hard to try and do both.

[John Ivan]

I was in Dallas 2 summers ago playing and REALLY wished I had more time. I would have loved to go see Indian Trail and meet the man himself.. Next time we're in town, I'm gonna take a day and make it happen.

Bilco, I find myself in the spot your in a lot lately. I'm doing a set of recordings all by myself at my little home studio as I type this. It is hard to get sounds when your the player and the only person there. I'm having a blast doing it though.

I tend to take my time with this. I will first get a great sound soloed by recording my vocal with different mics and placements.{ the only reason I solo this stage is to make sure nothings totally whacked,or a buzz or something that might be hard to hear at first in the mix.} I will eat like,, three or four tracks this way and then put them in the mix one at a time. I usually stumble on to something and then fine tune it. One of the mic's will jump out at me and then I'll try different placements until it sounds great with the mix in. Over time, you'll find certain combo's that really work for your voice and room. Of course, this can all go out the window from tune to tune.  {ain't it fun;-}

I'll do this same thing for acoustic guitar. For electric, I can finally get the source out of the room and work like a normal person. Hearing the tone in the context of the mix. Drums take a long time by myself but, it's coming together.

It really shows your on the right track asking the question about whether you should try to get sounds without EQ.  For me, the answer is yes. Sometimes, one nerds some EQ here and there. For instance, I EQ tom's on the way in quite often. Mostly dumping bottom a bit. I high pass snare drums and so on. But the less EQ needed, the better IMHO. As a mix engineer, I would rather get tracks that I need to EQ a bit to make work together  then tracks that need to be EQ'd a lot because someone already EQ'd the hell out of them.......

Harvey knows a whole lot more than me to be sure and I look forward to his reply.. The mic thread is great......

Ivan....................

[hargerst]

Frob wrote on Tue, 27 December 2005 19:14

acourding to his site, his rates are better then most in california. when i am song writting i usualy just set up a single mic and get my idea on tape it would be to hard to try and do both.

I have a soft spot in my head for singer/songwriters; I usually charge them about $50 a song.  (It's not on the rate sheet.)

[hargerst]

bilco,

Voice placement and tone are the most important things in a song.  Get the best sound you can for the voice, and then fit everything else around it.  

If I'm producing and I know I've got a killer vocalist, I start making vocal room from the start. Run the bass a little thinner. if an acoustic is needed, maybe a Nashville hi-strung 6 instead of a regular acoustic.

If I'm not producing, I'll know after the first run thru (or sooner if I get some pre-production time).  Then, I'll at least point out possible conflicts and offer solutions, if the group wants them.

One of the ways I like to mix is start with the vocals and get the best possible sound.  Then bring up another instrument and listen to whether it affects the vocals. If the vocals get thinner, hard to hear, or just plain disappear, time to fix that instrument (with eq, panning, reverb, whatever).  

If that doesn't work, I mute the instrument and move on to another.  At the end, I decide if I even need all those muted instruments or not, and I'll bring them back to see if I can make them work.  If not, they're history.