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[J.J. Blair]

I wish I could have a drum room that size.  Nice wedges!

BTW, I get pretty much the same results with 1176LNs and 1178s for that type of 4 button thing.  The compression circuits are identical.  The main difference between the units is the input stage, where the 1178 is transformerless and has a 5534 I believe.   The compression circuit is identical, from what I remember from the schematics.  

[bjornson]

One of the advantages to Pittsburgh....
Real Estate Prices!
I couldn't afford a dog house in the valley.
Then again you're not going to run into talent at the 7/11 either
sorry for the double post.
Back on topic.
Lower those thresholds!!

[Tidewater]

That room is depressingly tremendous!


M

[kraster]

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 22:24

Kraster, to be fair, that was the interviewer who didn't know which record it was.

I stand corrected. My Bad. Sorry Andy.

[rankus]

DivideByZero wrote on Thu, 05 January 2006 18:33

That room is depressingly tremendous! M

If you like that sort of thing

Makes mine look like a closet...

[bloodstone]

I was climbing mountains in Nepal and came upon a wise old man who was living in a stone hut at the top of a peak.  He told me "compression is your friend".  The trick in a lot of cases is to use it just enough to improve the mix or track (I rarely compress when tracking anymore) without it being audible.  I tend to use effects that way: delays and reverbs you can't really "hear" but improve the impact of the tune.

Compression can help you control an unruly signal that's overwhelming a mix.  Some of us don't have fader automation and can't manage the 50 fader moves a song might require w/o compression (mixing alone).  

Then there's the cases where smashing a given sound really hard is just the ticket.  It just depends on the song and the signal.  "If it sounds right, it is right".  Absolutism is dangerous when you're dealing with art.
_________________________
Dominic
Studio Wee

[chris haines]

Hello Steve,

I remember reading in the Kurt Cobain journals that you recommended using two mics on top of the snare, one hotter than the other...do you use this technique to avoid using compression on the snare or do you feel that in order to capture the timbre of the drum correctly you need two mics for louder/softer hits?

thanks.

[zmix]

[ singing ]
"I love things that are great
Good things are fantastic.  

'Cause I dig everything except things that I don't
And I'll try anything except the things I say I won't.
But one thing's for sure
I like things [ scatting ] that are great!"

[ the audience cheers ]

[Bob_Vandiver]

Quote:

there are some seriously amazing sounding records that are just crushed. Andy Wallace Tchad Blake ...

Quote:

Substitue "cliche-riddled, immediately-dated artefacts" for "seriously amazing sounding records" and you've hit another nail on the head.

I know that I am coming to this conversation very late  and am hardly the stature of a Steve Albini OR a Tchad Blake but it would be nice to remind ourselves that today's "cliche-riddled, immediately-dated artefacts" were yesterday's most significant innovations.

Here is a dated reference but it makes my point. I hated watching "NYPD Blue" at times simply because pf those stupid, over-the-top drum treatments used in the show music. They reminded me of the difference between your basic pickup truck and those rediculous monster trucks that are fifteen feet tall and a monument to the stupidity of man.

However, I think that a fair percentage of us originally thought that the drum sounds on Phil Collin's "In the Air Tonight" kicked some serious ass, the first thousand times they were heard. It isn't the effect, it is the over-use of an effect that is goofy, especially if you cannot help but hear it in the mix.

Another question raised early on in this thread was, can you name music that sounded weak in its unadorned state (or something like that)? Funny this question should come up. Just this weekend I was listening to some Seventies-era Grateful Dead and specifically thought that the "naturally" recorded drums (esp. Toms)  sounded positively anemic, thin, amateur.    So, yes.

As it turns out, "Natural" is also an illusion.

Use one color in your palate and you always sound clich

[Toomanywires]

Great post, Long,,,,,but great.

My thoughts on compression.

For starters not everyone’s take on what sounds good will be the same. Just like food some people love Sushi bars and some just hate them, and some only stop by for a little saki every now and then. Some engineers or bands just love the so called "crushed sound" so they work towards that sound. On the other hand some engineers or bands work to preserve the natural dynamics of their sound, and last but not least some engineers take the middle ground and use compression/limiting in moderation to achieve their sound. Time after time many new AE's ask themselves which method wins the debate. Well I found they all can win if given the right circumstances. It's all a matter of taste. The standard method of trial and error is the first step towards "the sound" you are looking for. Give them all a shot but make sure you have the time and patience for it.

Oh yeah and don’t forget to take a ton of notes........

[Bobro]

Let's see... let's push down or kill (clip) anything that sticks out of our "standard" so we can bring the whole thing, on the average, up. Then everyone can have everything- a car for example! Let's call it... "the folk's vehicle" for example.

Editing and gating out the "noise" down there below our "standard" goes without saying of course.

"Compression is the sound of rock and roll" - Tony Visconti

"Compression is the sound of cocksucking fascists"- Bobro



Off to the sea for a month of nakedness and wine, love you all,

-Cameron Bobro

PS. Yes of course I'm exaggerating, a little, but everyone here knows in their heart when they've crossed the line between art and being part of the problem, come on.

[groucho]

Quote:

maybe all these bands are pleased as punch with the records they have.

Quote:

I'm sure some of them are. My aunt Mabel liked her husband fine. He didn't beat her much.

While most of what Steve has said on this subject seems pretty sensible, this strikes me as somewhat inconsistant with his general philiosophy of "give the band what they want."

It's one thing to say that he prefers records that aren't super compressed or heavily processed. But to compare those who DO prefer those kinds of sounds to victims of domestic abuse seems to cross the line into arrogance.

Sure, there are tons of engineers imposing their cliche-ridden visions on the band, there are tons of engineers with deluded, overinflated senses of themselves as "artists" and "collaborators", etc. etc. I can buy all that.

But the dirty little secret just might be that... there are a lot of bands who LIKE it this way.

Chris

[CWHumphrey]

groucho wrote on Fri, 30 June 2006 06:07

Quote: maybe all these bands are pleased as punch with the records they have. Quote: I'm sure some of them are. My aunt Mabel liked her husband fine. He didn't beat her much. While most of what Steve has said on this subject seems pretty sensible, this strikes me as somewhat inconsistant with his general philiosophy of "give the band what they want." It's one thing to say that he prefers records that aren't super compressed or heavily processed. But to compare those who DO prefer those kinds of sounds to victims of domestic abuse seems to cross the line into arrogance. Sure, there are tons of engineers imposing their cliche-ridden visions on the band, there are tons of engineers with deluded, overinflated senses of themselves as "artists" and "collaborators", etc. etc. I can buy all that. But the dirty little secret just might be that... there are a lot of bands who LIKE it this way. Chris

I was hoping that Steve was going to address this specifically.  He hasn't, so I will.  Don't you think, that if a band chooses to work with Steve Albini, they already know how it's going to go?  Steve has written copious opinions on his attitudes to the music biz, his approach, his love of analog--long before coming to this forum.

I have a hard time believing that a band says they want to work with Steve Albini, but then, in the studio, a conversation goes like this: "Steve, love your work.  But uh, see, we're looking for your sound, but compressed, can you do that?"

But who knows?  It's a whacky biz.  An equally unlikely scenario:  Band to Tom Lord Alge, "Tom, we're so excited to have you mix this song, but, do you think you back off the compression?"

For the record I like both TLA's and Steve Albini's work, contradictory as they may seem.

Cheers,

Carter William Humphrey

[maxim]

cw wrote:

"I like both TLA's and Steve Albini's work, contradictory as they may seem"

contradictory is not uncomplimentary

[groucho]

Quote:

I was hoping that Steve was going to address this specifically. He hasn't, so I will. Don't you think, that if a band chooses to work with Steve Albini, they already know how it's going to go?

Well sure, I think we could assume that to be true. I'm not sure that really addresses what I said though.

While I totally love Steve's "pro-band" ethics I'm just kinda puzzled by this one inconsistancy, namely his assumption that all heavily compressed, heavily "tampered with" records are perpetrated upon the band in some way against their will.

When someone mentioned that it might in fact be the BANDS who often REQUEST this kind of treatment, he responded with the above quote comparing them to people who are too dumb to know they're being abused.

This seems out of line with his general respect for the band's desires, so I assume I'm misunderstanding him here. Either that or, just like everyone else in recording it seems, he really just thinks that his way is the ONLY good way and it happened to leak out in that one comment.

Chris