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[Swane]

Hi!
I really love the Savoys. Since I began using them i can hear stuff i never heard before and the Low End is just right . You proberly have the same experience with the Andras.
Cheers
Svante

[bobkatz]

The first piece of advice I can give based on some of the pictures I've seen here is:


GET RID OF THAT ACOUSTIC NIGHTMARE you call a "desk" that's between your monitors and you.

BK

[MASSIVE Mastering]

New room in the works...  

[davidc]

bobkatz wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 20:34

The first piece of advice I can give based on some of the pictures I've seen here is: GET RID OF THAT ACOUSTIC NIGHTMARE you call a "desk" that's between your monitors and you. BK

I wonder what percentage of top Mastering rooms have no desk between the engineer and the monitors. From what I have seen, most rooms do.

In my case, the desk is more like a table, and to my ears is relatively benign in it's effect (or maybe it's just that I am used to it )

Dave

[TotalSonic]

davidc wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 21:31

bobkatz wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 20:34 The first piece of advice I can give based on some of the pictures I've seen here is: GET RID OF THAT ACOUSTIC NIGHTMARE you call a "desk" that's between your monitors and you. BK I wonder what percentage of top Mastering rooms have no desk between the engineer and the monitors. From what I have seen, most rooms do. In my case, the desk is more like a table, and to my ears is relatively benign in it's effect (or maybe it's just that I am used to it ) Dave

Who has desks?  Sony, Trutone, Sterling, Masterdisk, etc.  I'd say about 95% of the mastering studios out there.

Who doesn't?  BK, Doug Sax.  I kind of liked Ed Littman's setup a lot as he just has a pared down analog process rack in front of him with everything else to the side.

My own opinion is that if the ergonomics of a desk allows you to be a lot more comfortable over long sessions then it might be of more of an added benefit to your work than the detriment that the added reflections are giving you.  Thus even though the sound isn't as good in the room without the desk - your ability to work well over the long term might allow you to create better masters than without it.  of course OMMV.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Ed Littman]

TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 18:15

[ Who doesn't?  BK, Doug Sax.  I kind of liked Ed Littman's setup a lot as he just has a pared down analog process rack in front of him with everything else to the side.

well thats about to change...as soon as the fedex guy gets here.
i like simple too, but it's abit sloppy the way it is now. so i'm  getting the sterling master plan A desk. about twice the width of my roll around rack with no need for the side cars

Quote:

My own opinion is that if the ergonomics of a desk allows you to be a lot more comfortable over long sessions then it might be of more of an added benefit to your work than the detriment that the added reflections are giving you.  Thus even though the sound isn't as good in the room without the desk - your ability to work well over the long term might allow you to create better masters than without it.  of course OMMV. Best regards, Steve Berson

Bk hangs on his couch. I would guess that would be hard to beat for comfort....

Ed

[Adam Dempsey]

I agree, as long as a desk in front has a low profile and benefits your sessions in terms of comfort, ergonomics, accesibility to EQ/monitor control from the monitoring position etc.. It should also minimise added mass/resonant volume - the sides of our desk are all cloth trim, is that the case with the Master Plans?

This pic, from our days of Sonic classic. We still have the 1630 (mod'd convertors) but not in the rack. I removed the nearfields, they're now just kept in case of request. Twin subs in the walls below the custom 900s speakers, biamped bridged system, 550W RMS/channel.

To all - great pics & all the best for Xmas & the new year.

[mastermind]

a couple views of mastermind... taken by my friend Scott from Exo:





t

[Viitalahde]

bobkatz wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 20:34

GET RID OF THAT ACOUSTIC NIGHTMARE

I know the desk can cause comb filtering (depends on the angle, height and all of course) but I'm not still sure if it's that big a deal when installed properly.

A whole different deal is that I personally HATE having the screen at the centre of the stereo image. If it's on, it's an attention-catcher, if it's off, it's still there. If/when I get around building a new room, I'm pretty sure I'll still have the screen way outside the sweet spot. For critical listening, you roll to the sweet spot and do your thing, when moving sound blocks around you sit at a different place.

For the desk, I'm not sure if it'll be a desk but an wildly angled rack or something.

I need an LCD screen.  

[davidc]

Viitalahde wrote on Thu, 22 December 2005 06:38

bobkatz wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 20:34 GET RID OF THAT ACOUSTIC NIGHTMARE I know the desk can cause comb filtering (depends on the angle, height and all of course) but I'm not still sure if it's that big a deal when installed properly. A whole different deal is that I personally HATE having the screen at the centre of the stereo image. If it's on, it's an attention-catcher, if it's off, it's still there. If/when I get around building a new room, I'm pretty sure I'll still have the screen way outside the sweet spot. For critical listening, you roll to the sweet spot and do your thing, when moving sound blocks around you sit at a different place. For the desk, I'm not sure if it'll be a desk but an wildly angled rack or something. I need an LCD screen.

I use the smallest screen I can get away with: a 17" LCD. I tried taking the screen away from the centre, but everything actually sounded worse (I am probably just used to the reflections).

Dave

[dcollins]

TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 15:15

Who has desks?  Sony, Trutone, Sterling, Masterdisk, etc.  I'd say about 95% of the mastering studios out there.

Oh it's more like 99%

Quote:

Who doesn't?  BK, Doug Sax.  I kind of liked Ed Littman's setup a lot as he just has a pared down analog process rack in front of him with everything else to the side.

That's only in Doug's surround room. The consoles at TML are large metal things that are at "stand-up" height.

Quote:

Thus even though the sound isn't as good in the room without the desk - your ability to work well over the long term might allow you to create better masters than without it.  of course OMMV.

If all you run is plugs, you can have a small desk. If your world is primarily analog, you have to be able to reach out and touch the gear.........


DC

[bobkatz]

dcollins wrote on Thu, 22 December 2005 17:00

If all you run is plugs, you can have a small desk. If your world is primarily analog, you have to be able to reach out and touch the gear......... DC

I have a specially-constructed angled wooden rack with 6 choice pieces in it... in front of the listening couch. Sitting on the arm of the couch is the TC 6000 Icon controller and a MIDI controller so I can remotely control other pieces that are in the rack behind me. A wireless keyboard/mouse that can sit in my lap completes the complement, and a flip-up LCD monitor (that is also acoustically invisible to the listening position) is attached to the top of the rack. You can put it in or take it out and the MLSSA measurements are virtually identical. It is so low physically and the back is so diffusive that the first reflection from the tweeters is extremely weak to begin with and if it could be found it would be about 14 feet up in the air where the height of the cathedral ceiling is at that point. The second reflection, if we could calculated it, would be insignificant, and would land behind my head somewhere....

I'll take a picture of the latest incarnation of the room for you as soon as I get a chance. But based on the angles and heights of the photos of the desks that you've posted, they are far from acoustically insignificant. I can easily hear the comb filtering of most rooms I've encountered with desks. The best test you can make for that is to run a MLSSA or similar frequency response measurement, then cover your desk with 3" soft sonex and compare the measurements.

Yes, it is a dilemma, but I feel that a mastering room should sound better than the best living room you've ever been in. I have a reflection free zone in my room past the first 20 ms.

BK

[davidc]

bobkatz wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 00:34

I can easily hear the comb filtering of most rooms I've encountered with desks.

Maybe you can, but I personally don't feel that the problem from the desk is a major issue. I feel that there are much bigger issues than this. I usually listen at the desk (which is about 15' from the monitors. I also listen from the couch at the back of the room (22' from the monitors). The two positions give slightly different perspectives, but you can easily hear the important issues in either position.

Quote:

Yes, it is a dilemma, but I feel that a mastering room should sound better than the best living room you've ever been in.

Well I am very confident that I have that covered. Most living rooms have lots of reflective furniture in them, untreated wall reflections, and room nodes. Also the quality of my monitoring chain is way beyond what most people I know of have at home.

Dave

[lagerfeldt]

Viitalahde wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 07:00

OK, I start.. My first room, to build client base and see how things go.

Looks nice. What's that light blue machine just above center of the rack?

[Viitalahde]

lagerfeldt wrote on Fri, 23 December 2005 01:56

Looks nice. What's that light blue machine just above center of the rack?

 

That's a Gyraf G10. Prototype.