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Author Topic: Punk Rock ethic  (Read 8081 times)

RMoore

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Punk Rock ethic
« on: December 20, 2005, 07:47:34 PM »

 
Quote:


Punk rock and the independent music scene have together been more important than any other cultural influences since the birth of electric music.



Just grabbed the above quote from Steve to start this new thread,

That comment sure brings back memories,

I got a copy of  Sex Pistols Never Mind the Bollocks when I was in elementary school, a highly subversive present from one of my moms friends ...
the lyrics and rebellious nature struck a big chord with me going to a "Queen Elizabeth' elementary school in Vancouver Canada, former British colony.
Soon thereafter me and my friends were getting the first DOA singles on Quintessence records and jumping around doing air guitar to tracks like World War 3, The Prisoner etc,
the first rock concert I ever saw was when I was 12 or so at a local University ballroom with  the Ramones (whose show I hated - thinking it was just dumb, but realized years later that was the point ) and local all girl punk band The Dishrags (of whom I became a fan),
Those where the days where in my hometown there was zero chance to even get a gig if you played original music so people from the scene used to organise their own gigs  at community halls where you might have a punk band, a pop band, a reggae band all on the same bill,
All kinds of little DIY labels were starting up left and right,
I remember playing on bills with DOA, No Means No et al,

Yeah those were the days that influenced so much of my own outlook, life trajectory and current DIY philosophy, even though I never played any punk music myself or bought very many records beyond the local scene releases, Black Flag, Bad Brains, SP etc..

What I find funny is how the initial 70's punk thing from NYC and London was IMO more of a media manipulation and nihilistic spew whereas the 2cnd wave of punk in North America circa the late 70's / early 80's seemed to spawn bands and a whole scene around them possessing some kind of incredible DIY ethic and idealism, especially with the West Coast bands, for whatever reason,

Too bad there's not much of a record business left for DIY actions to have much chance,


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Curve Dominant

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2005, 09:18:00 PM »

Ryan Moore wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 00:47

 
Quote:


Punk rock and the independent music scene have together been more important than any other cultural influences since the birth of electric music.


Just grabbed the above quote from Steve to start this new thread,

That comment sure brings back memories,

I got a copy of  Sex Pistols Never Mind the Bullocks when I was in elementary school, a highly subversive present from one of my moms friends ...


The obvious problem being, that the Sex Pistols were that day's equivelent of what's become known as the "Boy Band," a creation of London producer/impressario Malcolm MacLaren.

Fun? Hell yes. Subversive? How ironic.

jimmyjazz

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2005, 12:22:52 AM »

Curve Dominant wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 21:18

The obvious problem being, that the Sex Pistols were that day's equivelent of what's become known as the "Boy Band," a creation of London producer/impressario Malcolm MacLaren.

Fun? Hell yes. Subversive? How ironic.


I don't think that's the "obvious" problem.  I mean, I realize it's the cool thing to do . . . to dismiss the Pistols as some sort of progenators of Boy Band pop . . . but that doesn't make it right.  It just makes it a herd mentality.

Did the Sex Pistols push "copy" on some cultural Xerox machine, or did they actually lance a boil?  I vote the latter.  (They most certainly had help .)
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kraster

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2005, 04:10:44 AM »

Curve Dominant wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 02:18



The obvious problem being, that the Sex Pistols were that day's equivelent of what's become known as the "Boy Band," a creation of London producer/impressario Malcolm MacLaren.

Fun? Hell yes. Subversive? How ironic.



I guess that's why McLaren called it the "great rock n' roll swindle."
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RMoore

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2005, 10:06:16 AM »

Curve Dominant wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 03:18

Ryan Moore wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 00:47

 
Quote:


Punk rock and the independent music scene have together been more important than any other cultural influences since the birth of electric music.


Just grabbed the above quote from Steve to start this new thread,

That comment sure brings back memories,

I got a copy of  Sex Pistols Never Mind the Bollocks when I was in elementary school, a highly subversive present from one of my moms friends ...


The obvious problem being, that the Sex Pistols were that day's equivelent of what's become known as the "Boy Band," a creation of London producer/impressario Malcolm MacLaren.

Fun? Hell yes. Subversive? How ironic.


In my post I meant that giving me that particular album due to the themes and attitudes on it was an intentionally subversive move by an older person to influence me and boy did it ever have the intended effect to corrupt my impressionable young mind and make me rebellious and question authority,

Also at the time it the Sex Pistols were considered a highly subversive element in England by the powers that be - 'God SAve THe QUeen' during the Queen's jubilee year?  

Also note that I mentioned media manipulation in relation to the 1st wave of punk, so yes obviously I am aware the Pistols were themselves manipulated & put together by McClaren (basing the image upon what he'd just experienced in the NYC scene with New York Dolls, Richard Hell  blah blah blah) , but calling them that day's equivalent of a 'boy band' is stretching the boundaries of reality pretty far beyond what I think anyone who knows something of this chapter of musical history could ever even remotely consider.

And anyway, as we all know McClarens little creation rapidly took on a life of its own and became a Frankenstein's monster beyond anyone's wildest imagination, even McClaren himself,

So the little svengali detail is just a little historical footnote IMO which does nothing to diminish the lasting and significant cultural impact of the Pistols or the great tunes on Never Mind the BOLLOCKS

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By the end of today, another day is gone forever. You will never get it back.
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RMoore

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2005, 10:16:30 AM »

The English MI5 , version of the CIA or whatever actually considered it serious enough of an issue to invest time in building a file on Pistols and later on supposedly they were behind a secret harrassment campaign to drive Johnny Lydon out of the UK,

Can't really imagine that happening with 'Take That' somehow,

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James Perrett

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2005, 01:03:23 PM »

The Sex Pistols may have been McClaren's brainchild but he was picking up on a grass roots movement that was already happening. Bands like the 101'ers were building a following in the pubs and people like Dave Robinson were forming their own record labels to release this music that the majors were ignoring. Punk showed thousands of people (including me) that ideas were more important than ability and that you didn't have to wait to be signed up by a record label to put your music out and be heard.

Cheers

James

PS - I may be missing the obvious but, Ryan, why do you always get the name of the Sex Pistol's album wrong?

PPS - the UK Christmas number one single this week appears to be a true independent release. So DIY is still going strong over here.
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rankus

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2005, 06:35:12 PM »



I agree with the sentiment that although the Pistols were manufactured, they quickly went their own way, leaving McLaren pushing buttons that weren't attached to anything....

Ryan makes an interesting point, in that the first wave of punk was pretty much rejected by the North American youth... but a few years later we all had our own little punk bands ....  This was a HUGE cultural renovation here in "British" Columbia....

Ahh Ryan... you keep bringing back all these long dead memories of the early punk scene here in Vancouver!  I feel sorry for all the Masonic type Hall owners of the day....  We would rent the Boy Scout halls under the guise of a "baseball dance" or something to raise some money for our "sports team".... Then show up with a couple of hundred punks and throw down big time....

DOA's first show under that name on the lawn at the Planetarium under the guise of a Rock Against Radiation "Nuclear Protest" ... LOL .... Mid seventies.. everybody thought it was going to be some hippy festival.... It rained, became a mud fest, and then became Woodstock 2 (the one with the riot) That was My first real experience with punk.... More legendary than the Slow show at Expo!!!  Nobody had ever seen punk in Vancouver before that day.... Changed the town forever.

Then all the tiny little bars and lounges (remember the Arts Club Theater Lounge Ryan?)  started to book the original "alternative acts" , and within 3 years the big "hair-band-cover-tune" clubs all folded up.....

Then all the riots started happening at all the straight folks outdoor events, (Salmon Festival, New Years Eve, et al)  and the authorities started to try quell these new radical youth that kept showing up, by bringing in the riot squads.... Ever notice that there was no riot before the pigs showed up?......Idiots

Seems that the authorities thought they could impose their anal ethics on the masses.... we are still fighting that bullshit over here.... The "city of no fun" as we are now known...  Pity, because the punk scene is strong as ever, but the fun stuff for all the "straights" is gone.... Kinda shot themselves in the foot there....

Vancouver... a true "Punk Rock Ethic" Town if ever there was one!

Still going strong too....!!!!!

"Talk Minus Action Equals Zero" - DOA Slogan circa 1980's


--- sorry for the ramble folks... but I thought it might be interesting to some...-----

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RMoore

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2005, 06:44:55 PM »

jamesp wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 19:03

 
PS - I may be missing the obvious but, Ryan, why do you always get the name of the Sex Pistol's album wrong? .



thanks for pointing that out,
i think it was a freudian slip because i was really fantasizing about sandra bullock i guess  index.php/fa/2089/0/
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People's Republic of Ryan

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By the end of today, another day is gone forever. You will never get it back.
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RMoore

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2005, 06:58:56 PM »

rick - what a trip down memory lane   Smile

["Talk Minus Action Equals Zero" - DOA Slogan circa 1980's]

loved that slogan, i still have one of thier stickers on my career 'axe',
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People's Republic of Ryan

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By the end of today, another day is gone forever. You will never get it back.
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maxdimario

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2005, 07:07:15 PM »

The sex pistols were a real punk band, but their pop success was due to the producer, who had very innovative ways and very clear ideas of what he wanted.

they were taken off the streets and into the offices of rec. companies, and forced to work together..great stuff.

I especially like the part when they were encouraged to thrash about and vomit everywhere to get dropped out of the contracts, which made them instant money without selling one record..
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canada

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2005, 07:51:15 PM »

there's something michael jackson-ish about sandra bullock
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Curve Dominant

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2005, 05:59:03 AM »

I actually liked PIL much more that the SP. That's me below Keith Levine's guitar headstock, live at the East Side Club at 1229 Chestnut Street:

maxdimario

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2005, 06:16:20 AM »

...Speaking of PIL, I always liked the sound of that album, the sound of the room and the instruments.

anyone know where it was tracked?
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Samc

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2005, 06:35:49 AM »

[quote title=Ryan Moore wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 00:47]
Quote:


Punk rock and the independent music scene have together been more important than any other cultural influences since the birth of electric music.
Snip.........

Least we forget, (as it seems some people are prone to do), big credit must go to the vastly more independent and less fashion oriented "Ska" and "Rocky steady" genres from Jamaica, which Punk originally "borrowed" a lot of its  style and content from.  
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henchman

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 12:09:12 AM »

Curve Dominant wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 18:18

Ryan Moore wrote on Wed, 21 December 2005 00:47

 
Quote:


Punk rock and the independent music scene have together been more important than any other cultural influences since the birth of electric music.


Just grabbed the above quote from Steve to start this new thread,

That comment sure brings back memories,

I got a copy of  Sex Pistols Never Mind the Bullocks when I was in elementary school, a highly subversive present from one of my moms friends ...


The obvious problem being, that the Sex Pistols were that day's equivelent of what's become known as the "Boy Band," a creation of London producer/impressario Malcolm MacLaren.

Fun? Hell yes. Subversive? How ironic.



You need to rent the documentary about the sex psitols called "The Filth and the Fury". You'll see how utterly wrong you are.

canada

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2006, 03:16:12 AM »

from my perspective, sex pistols had little to do with shaping my musical inspirations.  but it's all perspective.

stooges / bowie / ramones / television
->
black flag / misfits / sonic youth / swans
->
jesus lizard / big black / butthole surfers
->
kelly clarkson???

So for my not being around then, the sex pistols and the clash didn't seem to affect the legacy of the music I love today.
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Les Ismore

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2006, 04:48:33 AM »

I was never a huge punk band fan although I've recorded a bunch of them. I always liked the drummer the best in punk bands because they were usually the ones who could actualy play and they had lots of energy. Of course they were mostly playing a polka beat. I think I would have enjoyed them more if they wore Lederhosen though to go along with the polka. I like Lederhosen and I like any band that wears them. Iregardless.
Of course there was some great punk music in Vancouver. DOA, Art Bergmann, No Means No, Family Plot, Animal Slaves, etc. I think Art Bergmann was my favorite. there's a guy who could really write great music.
Hey Ryan, did you consider Animal Slaves a punk band? Kind of an Art Punk Poetry Funk band I guess. You were great in that band BTW.
Punk today is just another kiddie pop formula to brainwash the little kiddies into thinking that if they buy some product then they'll be "rebels" and "different" just like everyone else.

"Talk - Action = 0"                    DOA
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henchman

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2006, 03:05:09 PM »

canada wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 00:16



So for my not being around then, the sex pistols and the clash didn't seem to affect the legacy of the music I love today.



You have no idea how influential both of those bands were.

Just becasue you weren't around, doesn't mean they're irrelevant.

I guess since you weren't around for the Beatles, they didn't affect the legacy of music either.

vernier

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2006, 03:48:18 PM »

Chris Thomas gave Pistols that giant wall of powerchords, several tracks, some tuned down ...wonderful sound ...definitely effected bands that followed.
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bjornson

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2006, 06:01:38 PM »

Punk rock is like opera and Dylan....
You either get it , or you don't.
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James Perrett

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2006, 08:41:32 AM »

You could say that Chris Thomas made the Sex Pistols sound more like a heavy metal band. Many of the best punk records were recorded at a small 8 track studio called Pathway in North London - for me, those records define the real sound of punk.

Cheers

James.
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kraster

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 09:27:10 AM »

I think the majority of people would remember "God Save the Queen" or "Pretty Vacant" before the likes of "New Rose" as the British Punk Sound. It's worth stating that the Sex Pistols as an entity under McClaren were as far from the Punk Ethic as Kelly Clarkson is. McClaren's impact is still felt today with bands like Babyshambles etc.
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rnicklaus

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 01:24:58 PM »

kraster wrote on Tue, 03 January 2006 06:27

I think the majority of people would remember "God Save the Queen" or "Pretty Vacant" before the likes of "New Rose" as the British Punk Sound. It's worth stating that the Sex Pistols as an entity under McClaren were as far from the Punk Ethic as Kelly Clarkson is. McClaren's impact is still felt today with bands like Babyshambles etc.


"People" remember what they liked at the time. It's pretty simple really.


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canada

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 03:29:27 PM »

henchman wrote on Mon, 02 January 2006 20:05


You have no idea how influential both of those bands were.

Just becasue you weren't around, doesn't mean they're irrelevant.

I guess since you weren't around for the Beatles, they didn't affect the legacy of music either.


No need to be so insulting.  If you re-read my post, you'll see that I mentioned "perspective" a couple times.  For me, I can't see a direct lineage from the Sex Pistols to Fugazi.  That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
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garbarek

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2006, 07:57:46 PM »

And, for the record, yes, she does have a Michael Jacksonish look.

Shocked
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maxim

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2006, 09:52:28 PM »

the saints
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vernier

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2006, 04:44:58 AM »

Quote:

You could say that Chris Thomas made the Sex Pistols sound more like a heavy metal band.

Actually, I've never heard guitars sound like that before, or since ...way harmonic, beautiful even.
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James Perrett

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 10:50:05 AM »

maxim wrote on Wed, 04 January 2006 02:52

the saints


Funny enough - I had Kym from the band working on some old stuff here recently. He's got some good stories about the London punk scene.

Cheers

James.
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dave p

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Re: Punk Rock ethic
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2006, 07:29:45 AM »

If you want the lowdown on the recording sessions for NMTB, Sound on Sound has a good article here...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep04/articles/classictracks .htm

For a purer form of subversion and rebellion though it has to be CRASS.

http://www.southern.com/southern/label/CRC/

Their engineer, John Loder (RIP), was apparently an influence on Steve Albini.
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