Topic: Splitting guitar signal for biamping (Read 6067 times)

George_ · « **on:** December 19, 2005, 09:40:36 AM »

hi folks,

I want to try multiple amps for recording (at the same time).. my guitar signal needs to be split into minimum 2 signal (preferably jack in ==> 2 jack out).. no need to be symetrically..

cheers!

compasspnt · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2005, 09:49:58 AM »

Please excuse the blatant commercialism here, and Harv, Fibes or Dave feel free to delete this if you feel it steps over the line.

But I make a product which does this extremely well.

http://members.aol.com/lucaseng/dec.html

However, this is a parts-intensive, and therefore somewhat expensive product, and it is really meant for the high end producer/engineer who is able to pay for the quality and convenience.

There are several other less expensive, single channel products which will just split the signal with a minimum of loss, and don't have all of the control room convenience features which may be unnecesary to you.

George_ · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:00:07 AM »

thanx Terry!

interesting.. I didnt know that this product exists.. yeah it's for shure a very good price but I would say 300$ over my planned budget;)

cheers

Vertigo · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:06:55 AM »

I use a Boss TU2 tuner. It has two out jacks - one normal and one bypass. Splits the signal perfectly, I've never had any problem.

-Lance

George_ · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:10:30 AM »

but then you have only bypass or signal? you cant have both at the same time..dont you?

Fibes · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:10:49 AM »

I just ordered two STDs from Fletcher.

Heh.

I've used any of a number of tranformer isolated boxes...

George_ · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:21:30 AM »

interesting.. something in europe available too? shipping costs from the US of A are lilbit expensive..

Vertigo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:22:13 AM »

Quote:

but then you have only bypass or signal? you cant have both at the same time..dont you?

The bypass jack cuts off the signal when the tuner is on, the other jack allows the signal to pass. When the tuner is off both jacks are active, so yes, you can have both on at the same time. That's how I use it to split the guitar signal.

-Lance

Fibes · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:59:38 AM »

noGearslut wrote on Mon, 19 December 2005 10:21

interesting.. something in europe available too? shipping costs from the US of A are lilbit expensive..

Terry's box looks awesome but for what your asking is a little on the (in a good way)high end.

Doesn't Mercenary have a Euro affiliate? If not check out the Palmer stuff which is made somewhere on that side of the pond.

I never have our Boss tuner in the signal path 'cuase i can hear the difference but in a pinch i wouldn't worry too much on shorter runs. I use my Zvex Super hard On sometimes and a modded A/B box by Whirlwind. I'm looking forward to seeing if the STD does what i'd like it to.

Tidewater · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2005, 11:38:01 AM »

Does one of the amps have a second input jack?

You could just do what guitar players do, and that's loop out of the 1st amp #2 jack into amp #2..

Works from channel-to-channel as well, mostly.

M

George_ · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2005, 12:25:18 PM »

Quote:

Does one of the amps have a second input jack?

You could just do what guitar players do, and that's loop out of the 1st amp #2 jack into amp #2..

Works from channel-to-channel as well, mostly.

no.. they havent.. and.. I wanna be autonomus because I am recording for other bands so equipment depends on the band.

ok..

1. expensive one from terry
2. boss tuner
3. STD from fletshi-baby
4. Palmer
5. shipping from Fletshi-baby with eurocalculator

... looks good:)

Frob · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2005, 05:12:57 PM »

just wire up a Y spliter. its not hard and its cheap. not if you want compleat isolation between the amps then go with the before mentioned options.

tats_dragon · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2005, 07:37:16 PM »

All you need is a BS2 Buffer splitter from:
http://www.axess-electronics.com/

I always thought a hi impedance guitar signal is the last thing that should be split with a Y cable.

Jun

compasspnt · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2005, 08:56:00 PM »

tats_dragon wrote on Mon, 19 December 2005 19:37

I always thought a hi impedance guitar signal is the last thing that should be split with a Y cable.

You got that right!

Tidewater · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2005, 09:04:01 PM »

Yeah no Y!

Damned Boogie.

M

rankus · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2005, 09:25:31 PM »

Someone should also mention to watch for phase issues when placing your microphone(s) using two or more amplifiers at once (or when re-amping).... It is even possible for two amps to have opposite polarity (180 degrees out of phase) due to different internal pathways... make sure you try hitting the "phase button(s) on one of your pre amps... (see if it sounds fatter, if it does then maybe keep it in)

I agree on the no "Y" cable... possibly a good way to get ground loops and serious hum I think. Some isolation like a transformer needed....

I would also say that I seem to find using multi amps, or re-amping, to pose different problems each time... hums , phase , etc. ... but with patience, and trial and error, it's worth it!

floodstage · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2005, 11:09:20 PM »

I'd use the nice box from Terry if I had one but since I don't I use one of my Sans Amp direct boxes for that.

It has an active out and parallel output. When the active stuff is switched off, both outputs are the same.

George_ · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2005, 12:58:57 AM »

dont slap me.. found this:

http://www.thomann.de/behringer_mx882_ultralink_pro_prodinfo .html

hate behringer too;)

http://www.thomann.de/nobels_split4_prodinfo.html

http://www.thomann.de/palmer_prmms_microsplitter_prodinfo.ht ml

http://www.thomann.de/artikel-188333.html

the first 3 need to have a DIbox first.. so I will have my guitarsignal destroyed by 2 FX.. the palmer looks best to me
http://www.thomann.de/artikel-188333.html

http://www.thomann.de/prodbilder/188333.jpg

and last but not least
http://www.thomann.de/artikel-178184.html

http://www.thomann.de/prodbilder/178184.jpg

compasspnt · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2005, 01:11:33 AM »

rankus wrote on Mon, 19 December 2005 21:25

Someone should also mention to watch for phase issues when placing your microphone(s) using two or more amplifiers at once (or when re-amping).... It is even possible for two amps to have opposite polarity (180 degrees out of phase) due to different internal pathways... make sure you try hitting the "phase button(s) on one of your pre amps... (see if it sounds fatter, if it does then maybe keep it in)

I agree on the no "Y" cable... possibly a good way to get ground loops and serious hum I think. Some isolation like a transformer needed....

I would also say that I seem to find using multi amps, or re-amping, to pose different problems each time... hums , phase , etc. ... but with patience, and trial and error, it's worth it!

Exactly. All of these things are what The Deceiver was invented to take care of, without leaving your chair.

George_ · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2005, 01:18:29 AM »

mornin terry:)

well.. I fully agree with you that your deciver might be the best solution.. but you know.. some of us work to buy food and pay the rent;)

it's just too much at the moment.

cheers &thanx you for joining the thread terry!

compasspnt · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2005, 03:01:02 AM »

Hi again,

I'm not trying to sell you (or anyone) a unit here; we can't make enough to sell any more than the few we do already.

I'm just trying to answer the questions regarding what is needed in a high end guitar splitter/recording control box.

The ones you found look good for simple splitting.

Go for one of those! Perhaps the Palmer?

Best regards.

Bill B · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2005, 09:01:00 AM »

compasspnt wrote on Mon, 19 December 2005 09:49

Please excuse the blatant commercialism here, and Harv, Fibes or Dave feel free to delete this if you feel it steps over the line.

But I make a product which does this extremely well.

It can't be too expensive when you consider "never touched by sweet little old factory ladies with bandanas tied around their foreheads!"
That's priceless!
Is that local island labor, Terry?

Fibes · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2005, 10:24:58 AM »

FWIW One day i will have a deceiver but the STD solves the problems i need solved like long cable runs, isolated splitting and what sold me at the price point ground lift because although all my amps play nice other folks that come through sometimes don't. As far as the polarity switch, I can handle that once my knee heals...

compasspnt · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2005, 11:56:52 AM »

[quote title=Bill B wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 09:01]

compasspnt wrote on Mon, 19 December 2005 09:49

It can't be too expensive when you consider "never touched by sweet little old factory ladies with bandanas tied around their foreheads!"
That's priceless!
Is that local island labor, Terry?

The Deceiver is now made here at our studio by me and Osie (from Frank's design and approval).

Frank hand makes all of the tube gear in Mississippi.

Still no little old factory ladies, but I'm searching for a bandana for myself!

Tidewater · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2005, 03:57:33 PM »

Terry! $695! Now we NEED A BUDGET!

-winky-

Nice box.

M

Fibes · « **Reply #25 on:** December 20, 2005, 06:43:16 PM »

The guys at Radial just came out with an A B Y box with iso tranny, polarity flip and groujnd lift but it appears to be passive.

Tidewater · « **Reply #26 on:** December 20, 2005, 07:56:47 PM »

Never work for an aggressive sound.

M

compasspnt · « **Reply #27 on:** December 20, 2005, 10:04:29 PM »

DivideByZero wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 15:57

Terry! $695! Now we NEED A BUDGET!

-winky-

Nice box.

Look at photograph. Count those high quality toggle switches. Many costly parts also inside. Much wiring work. Not enough time.

MikePotter · « **Reply #28 on:** December 21, 2005, 12:00:50 AM »

I use some of the Little Labs boxes to do that (couple of their "Multi P.I.P" boxes with Redeye Reamps). I know they make a box that splits out to three guitars. Their stuff isn't cheap but works really well and is built to last.

Mike

Astia · « **Reply #29 on:** December 21, 2005, 04:59:06 PM »

We've also been looking for a splitter for guitar and the Deciever looks great but I guess we'll try this one first:

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw3_artikel-169922.html

Any experiences of this product?

rankus · « **Reply #30 on:** December 21, 2005, 06:45:20 PM »

DivideByZero wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 12:57

Terry! $695! Now we NEED A BUDGET!

-winky-

Nice box.

M

Thats fukken cheap! I bought a compliment of Radial DI boxes (a passive and a active) that handle only about 50% of the chores that Terry's box does.... for $800.00 (Canadian).... Had I known about the Deceiver, I would have bought at least one.... shit!...

Tidewater · « **Reply #31 on:** December 22, 2005, 02:56:00 AM »

Yeah, I was just poking.

I have frequently wired up guitars say, for around $150 each, and I realize what goes into making that box.. I was more playing around with the -budget- thing.

Smile

M

craig boychuk · « **Reply #32 on:** December 23, 2005, 11:29:28 AM »

Yet another opinion here...

As someone who often runs two amps (or is in bands with people using two amps)...

I must say the Boss AB box works quite nicely, and I didn't see it mentioned in the thread.

FWIW, I have used the Deciever extensively and it is well worth the money, if you can afford it.

Les Ismore · « **Reply #33 on:** January 01, 2006, 06:01:40 PM »

I have for many years just used the volume pedal I have which has an extra out for a tuner. I have used this on dozens and dozens of records with great results. It's just a Y. You may have to mess with AC polarity and grounding a little bit. If you have money to burn a trany iso would be nice but it's really not necessary. I have gotten many tracks and sounds that people drool over using this method.

R/E/P Community

Author Topic: Splitting guitar signal for biamping (Read 6067 times)