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Author Topic: Seems like it's cheating...  (Read 7658 times)

bilco

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2005, 09:30:24 am »

A lot of my favorite snippets of band performances are live:

Yes: "Yours is No Disgrace" - Bill Bruford's drum breaks! actually all the songs off the Yes album live are killer

The Who Live at Leeds: All of it!

Joni Mitchell Miles of Aisles: All of it again!

Phil Keaggy: Check out the live version of "Shouts of Joy" on Time Volume 2, which I think has only 1 live cut other than this one - best loud as death monster guitar tone (Marshall?) and great drumming, vintage Keaggy guitar solos too,  go out on that limb, cut half way through it and  pull it off!

bilco
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Tidewater

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2005, 03:06:45 pm »

Dave Martin wrote on Sun, 18 December 2005 02:09


Twist and Shout.

Err... does that make me a bad person?


No, to be a bad person, you'd have to act out in some way.. like dancing to it, in news socks, on a wooden floor.


M
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Dave Martin

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2005, 06:36:00 pm »

maxim wrote on Sun, 18 December 2005 03:29

really, twist and shout?

i guess you must be a naturalist

you do work in nashville, right?


I am kind of a naturalist, though I'm usually not nekkid outside... Oh, wait - that wasn't what you meant.

I just prefer the higher energy of the early Beatles. But remember that I think Humble Pie was one of the all time great live bands...
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Dave Martin

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2005, 06:37:17 pm »

bilco wrote on Sun, 18 December 2005 08:30


Joni Mitchell Miles of Aisles: All of it again!

bilco


Ooh, if you liked that, try Shadows and Light.
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maxim

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2005, 07:36:25 pm »

dave wrote:

"I am kind of a naturalist, though I'm usually not nekkid outside... Oh, wait - that wasn't what you meant."

who sez?
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Revolution

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2005, 09:07:16 pm »

I remember an interview with ex Bangles singer Susanna Hoffs who claimed in her solo album that she was nude when se did her vocals.
So I gather if se didn't sing nude live then she would have been cheeting right.
I know id be asking for my money back.

maxdimario

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2005, 04:44:12 am »

performing live to tape, like on strawberry fields, isn't the same as what's going on now.

even the beatles themselves degenerated as they spent too much time in the studio.

the 8 track beatles sounded worse than the 4 track beatles.

if you had to have one album to know what they were really about it would be one of the early ones with minimal overdubbing.
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bilco

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2005, 12:14:12 pm »

I agree about the Beatles.  Those earliest recordings, like "Meet the Beatles", were marathon recording sessions and you can hear it in Lennon's vocal on some of the rockers.  I can't remember how many hours that session was, but it was brutal.  It captures the energy though and everything that is so cool about a really good band hitting on all cylinders at the same time.  As much as I love the other extreme, like the Yes Fragile album, live or as close as you can get to live is hard to top.  

I hate being isolated from the drummer by a pane of glass and listening in headphonse is just strange; I can't get past it. I really don't like to overdub the rhythm guitar and vocals separately; I play and sing differently when I break it down than I do when I am just playing and singing at the same time.

I am really tempted to find someone who would be willing to record my singer/songwriter stuff with 1 omni mic and everyone standing around in a circle, moving in closer to the mic for solos.......  It would no doubt capture my less than perfect vocals, but if the band is happening, it captures the fun!

bilco
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Fibes

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2005, 12:26:07 pm »

bilco wrote on Mon, 19 December 2005 12:14

I am really tempted to find someone who would be willing to record my singer/songwriter stuff with 1 omni mic and everyone standing around in a circle, moving in closer to the mic for solos.......  It would no doubt capture my less than perfect vocals, but if the band is happening, it captures the fun!

bilco


Practice and prepare that way and do it.

The pre-pro makes up for the lack of post...
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Fibes
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maxim

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2005, 08:19:13 pm »

bilco wrote:

"I hate being isolated from the drummer by a pane of glass and listening in headphonse is just strange; I can't get past it. I really don't like to overdub the rhythm guitar and vocals separately; I play and sing differently when I break it down than I do when I am just playing and singing at the same time.

I am really tempted to find someone who would be willing to record my singer/songwriter stuff with 1 omni mic and everyone standing around in a circle, moving in closer to the mic for solos......."

you can have the best of both worlds if you set up right

when i did my record, mike stavrou had me(vox/rthm gtr), the drummer and the bass player sitting in the same room

the vox30 sat in the kitchen, and the bass amp in the bathroom

the final isolation was fantastic, except for the vocal mic, but it was always going to be a scratch (i find it hard to put 100% concentration into 2 activities, so the rthm gtr was the priority on the day

we were wearing headphones, but you could certainly feel the kick and see the drummer's hands, and, besides, mike's headphone mix already sounded like a record!
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Roadster

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2005, 04:20:35 pm »

Seems like it's cheating? Interesting thread.

Multitrack recording is cheating.
Sequencing is cheating.

If there had been laws against it, would the music scene or musicians be any different today? I think so.

These are pretty much my thoughts also:

hargerst wrote on Sat, 17 December 2005 10:17

Seems to me that we're talking about two different groups of people here. To make an analogy (God, I love analogies), it's like a conversations between a photographer (realism) and an artist (impressions). Both camps have valid points and it's possible to appreciate both disciplines on their own merits. I enjoy looking at Ansel Adams prints, but I enjoy Van Gogh too. Both very different interpretations of the world around them.

Seems like a similar situation here. We can record something in the studio that can be played live (photograph), or we can create a sonic painting (art) which can only be enjoyed on the medium used (a CD in this case) and never intended for live performance.

In this instance Dave, you're really asking if it's okay that the artist uses a different color blue for the sky. I'd say, fine - if that's how the artist wants us to see the sky.

With all the new tools at our disposal, I'm not sure where we fit in these days; part photographer, but at times, artistic collaborators as well.

And another view:

I don't really mind when a recording is something that can't be done live. I prefer it when live versions of a song are different then the CD versions anyway. I mean I can stay home and listen to my CD for free. Why pay to hear the some thing somewhere I can't be naked?  Even if it is possible to play the recorded version live.

A band playing live and a band making a record do seem to be connected. To me they are very different types of art. But I think that bands who make the best records are the ones that have spent years playing live and working on their sound. Just like I think the best film actors are the ones who can do it on the stage too.

I really like playing guitar in my home and recording it but I have no interest in playing live. I just don't enjoy it.

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Tidewater

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2005, 05:35:24 pm »

Playing live never lasts long enough, I want to do 8 hour shows.

Todd Rundgren made an album in front of an audience. It sounded the same live, as recorded.. they could play it again.. anytime.

I wish they would not.


M
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rwj1313

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2005, 06:09:46 pm »

hargerst wrote on Sat, 17 December 2005 12:17

or we can create a sonic painting


You really shouldn't tempt J.J. like that!
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rwj1313

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2005, 06:17:48 pm »

Damn that Les Paul,

Because of him we are all cheaters
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If you think you're finished at the dance, you are quitting too soon.    William Wittman

you need the fat to protect the stomach lining against alcohol, and the alcohol to cut through the fat in the bloodstream so, it's beer & doughnuts for me.  Maxim

Dave Martin

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2005, 11:36:06 pm »

DivideByZero wrote on Tue, 20 December 2005 16:35

Playing live never lasts long enough, I want to do 8 hour shows.

M


Trust me - you don't want to do an 8 hour show. At least you won't want to do it twice...  Shocked

The longest gig I ever did was 13 hours. The last 3 were kinda painful (I was playing acoustic bass - with no amplification).
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