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Author Topic: Seems like it's cheating...  (Read 7634 times)

rnicklaus

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2005, 01:32:29 am »

DivideByZero wrote on Fri, 16 December 2005 20:31

This thread is not about food.

I have 30 days in my playlist.


M


Clem Clempson replaced Framton on that record, i'm pretty sure.
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Tidewater

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2005, 02:22:46 am »

I had Marriot's 3 pickup Les Paul for a time, he had to get the middle pickup from another guitar he put it in.

I kind of wish I had that now.


M
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Revolution

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2005, 07:48:12 am »

Well to me cheeting is almost every live album since Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous album.
Why do bands release live albums/DVD's when everything but the drums are overdubbed.

Tim Halligan

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2005, 09:00:12 am »

Revolution wrote on Sat, 17 December 2005 20:48

Well to me cheeting is almost every live album since Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous album.
Why do bands release live albums/DVD's when everything but the drums are overdubbed.


It's been going on this way for decades...sadly.

There are some real ones around...at least they sound real. Clapton live in Japan from the late 70's, or early 80's springs to mind...

The ultimate "cheat" live album is reputed to be Supertramp Live in Paris. Allegedly the only thing kept from the gig was the crowd...and that was sweetened as well...


Cheers,
Tim
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Dave Martin

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2005, 10:23:28 am »

maxim wrote on Fri, 16 December 2005 23:42

i reckon, anything goes


as long as they don't simultaneously prick the ballon of suspension of disbelief

which, is what, i guess you (dave) are talking about

another question, is would it be the same if you didn't have engineers ears?




It is, actually - I listen to these sorts of tracks and all i can think of is 'They couldn't do that live'. On the other hand, there are records that couldn't be done live that don't 'prick the ballon of disbelief; An Oasis record comes to mind that seems to keep adding guitars in every section until it's absolutely huge. And I thought that was cool...

And I don't know if it would bug me if I wasn't listening with ears that have spent 35 years listening to drummers.
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Tidewater

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2005, 12:28:29 pm »

god at least the drums are live!

m
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hargerst

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2005, 01:17:15 pm »

Seems to me that we're talking about two different groups of people here.  To make an analogy (God, I love analogies), it's like a conversations between a photographer (realism) and an artist (impressions).  Both camps have valid points and it's possible to appreciate both disciplines on their own merits.  I enjoy looking at Ansel Adams prints, but I enjoy Van Gogh too.  Both very different interpretations of the world around them.

Seems like a similar situation here.  We can record something in the studio that can be played live (photograph), or we can create a sonic painting (art) which can only be enjoyed on the medium used (a CD in this case) and never intended for live performance.

In this instance Dave, you're really asking if it's okay that the artist uses a different color blue for the sky.  I'd say, fine - if that's how the artist wants us to see the sky.

With all the new tools at our disposal, I'm not sure where we fit in these days; part photographer, but at times, artistic collaborators as well.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
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James Duncan

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2005, 02:38:14 pm »

I have to say that I used to be of the "photography camp" (to use Harvey's analogy), but I find myself now thinking that whatever works is the mantra of the day.

Obviously, a lot of songs are either not going to be played live, or just played badly since a lot of parts are missing.

As an engineer however, it seems like my job to produce the best product possible, and if that is from an inspired live performance, then great! But, if things require a wall of guitars and 5 different drum kits, then so be it as well.
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Brian Jansen

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2005, 05:46:05 pm »

hargerst wrote on Sat, 17 December 2005 10:17

Seems to me that we're talking about two different groups of people here.  To make an analogy (God, I love analogies), it's like a conversations between a photographer (realism) and an artist (impressions).  Both camps have valid points and it's possible to appreciate both disciplines on their own merits.  I enjoy looking at Ansel Adams prints, but I enjoy Van Gogh too.  Both very different interpretations of the world around them.

Seems like a similar situation here.  We can record something in the studio that can be played live (photograph), or we can create a sonic painting (art) which can only be enjoyed on the medium used (a CD in this case) and never intended for live performance.

In this instance Dave, you're really asking if it's okay that the artist uses a different color blue for the sky.  I'd say, fine - if that's how the artist wants us to see the sky.

With all the new tools at our disposal, I'm not sure where we fit in these days; part photographer, but at times, artistic collaborators as well.



I don't really mind when a recording is something that can't be done live.  I prefer it when live versions of a song are different then the CD versions anyway.  I mean I can stay home and listen to my CD for free.  Why pay to hear the some thing somewhere I can't be naked?  Razz  Even if it is possible to play the recorded version live.  

A band playing live and a band making a record do seem to be connected.  To me they are very different types of art.  But I think that bands who make the best records are the ones that have spent years playing live and working on their sound.  Just like I think the best film actors are the ones who can do it on the stage too.  

I really like playing guitar in my home and recording it but I have no interest in playing live.  I just don't enjoy it.  
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Tidewater

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2005, 08:18:43 pm »

Just go to a 'modern diva' show.. it *is* the record, with goofy dancing...

Well, all modern divas, except for Junior Brown..


M
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maxdimario

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2005, 09:04:16 pm »

Quote:

Others had pop hits and therefor got bigger - Hey Zepplin had Good Times Bad Times on POP radio, but nobody had a better live show than Humble Pie.



to understand where led zeppelin got some of their concepts, you've gotta hear Steve Marriot singing with the Small Faces.

most notably whole lotta love, which had a big influence from the SF cover of You Need Lovin' as far as the singing and loud electrics.

I think I read that Marriot used to see Plant coming to Small Faces shows in his pre-zep days. Sounds like it.

Plant did develop his own style very well, of course...

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compasspnt

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2005, 12:32:56 am »

Which would you rather hear by The Beatles...

Twist And Shout

or

Strawberry Fields?
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Dave Martin

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2005, 02:09:50 am »

compasspnt wrote on Sat, 17 December 2005 23:32

Which would you rather hear by The Beatles...

Twist And Shout

or

Strawberry Fields?

Twist and Shout.

Err... does that make me a bad person?
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Dave Martin

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2005, 02:14:00 am »

hargerst wrote on Sat, 17 December 2005 12:17

 In this instance Dave, you're really asking if it's okay that the artist uses a different color blue for the sky.  I'd say, fine - if that's how the artist wants us to see the sky.



I certainly see your point, Harvey... On the other hand, I much prefer Rembrandt to Van Gogh, and I've probably complained to someone or other about Vahn Gogh's use of colors, too...  Rolling Eyes
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maxim

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Re: Seems like it's cheating...
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2005, 04:29:26 am »

really, twist and shout?

i guess you must be a naturalist

you do work in nashville, right?
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