Ron Steele wrote on Sun, 18 December 2005 23:02 |
Can you share with us what popular bands you feel were compromised by this "inappropriate standard".
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While I was referring mainly to my friends' bands, and my own observations of the studio culture, It isn't hard to find examples ot terriffic (or at least competent) bands who made horrible records in the 1980s, scarred by the production-of-the-day brought to bear on them:ZZ Topp, Def Leppard, AC/DC, Cheap Trick... The list is a long one.
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So what do you think of George Martian? Was he conducting himself in a honorable fashion? Did he not contribute to the Beatles, or did he simply muck up what we will never know?
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Well, the Beatles (aside: why does everyone use this utterly unique band as an example in every situation, as thought the Beatles were the sole decider of how bands' careers ought to progress?) anyway, the Beatles were essentially producing their own records, except in name, from Revolver on. I think everyone involved has said as much. If you prefer their earlier, more standard material, then you have a pretty good case for letting producers tell bands what to do and how to do it. If you prefer their later material, then you're making my case for me.
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I found out that, not only was a dumb ass with out a clue, but that there was plenty of room for ideas to form and grow because of an outside and organized perspective.
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I'm sorry for you that you were a dumb-ass without a clue. If you had been brilliant and self-aware and comfortable with your own ideas, would you have known it at the time? You didn't know you were a dumb-ass, so it's hard to believe you would have known you were a genius. I've worked with enough geniuses to know that I'm just as likely to be the dumb-ass in any relationship, and I don't want to foist that on a genius. I'd prefer to allow for the possibility of genius, rather than defaulting to a mode where I assume everyone is a dumb-ass.
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Steve, if your promoting your method that is fine, but to say a producer or AE is imposing himself on a band is kind of shortsighted, especially when you consider all the groups and artists that had multiple success's with the same producer or AE.
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I have seen producery behavior be destructive. I have never listened to a record and thought, "that could use a little more producing." I have witnessed greatness that required no external input. I have an innate suspicion of someone telling an artist what his art ought to be like. I have an in-built respect for the art of my clients and the clients themselves.
I don't think it is possible for me to assume that I am mistaken on all of the above, and a few hit records being made by bands with producers won't change my mind. How many flops have these producers produced-up anyway? Don't those flops prove me right? No, they don't, but they indicate that producing is not the answer. Don't play the results. Play the process.
I have no quibble with a band inviting someone into their fold as a co-operating partner. I think such instances of true collaboration are probably pretty rare, and recording folks who pretend their "How about some tambourine?" constitutes "collaboration" are mistaken.
I know many of my peers do more than that, going so far as to re-structure songs, write parts, sing and play guitar, etc. for bands that hire them. Two things strike me as ridiculous about this:
1) If he's so good at all this stuff, why doesn't he just make a record and be famous?
2) If a band is so dissatisfied with their music that they need all this stuff on it to be content, what the hell did they start with, and why did anyone think it was worth recording? "Boy, this material sure is clumsy and weak. Fantastic! Let's get into the studio right away so we can get rid of it and record something else!"
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You offer a wire to tape, and others offer something more.
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That's what I offer? Now I know why the phone keeps ringing. Wire fetishists.
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I could see alot of your points clearer, if all bands and acts felt the way you say they do, but it is just not true.
Many seek out the producer and the AE because they know the benefits that can be gained.Steve, you make it sound like there is some sort of epidemic going on when in reality, it is probably due to simple personality conflicts between a band and a producer/AE.
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My complaint is with the underlying culture of the recording environment, and that comes from engineers and producers: Producers and engineers assuming control of the creative aspects (rather than just the technical aspects) and then trumpeting their achievements. They claim a kind of authorship over the records they work on, and expect to do so always.
These people are riding on the backs of the truly creative people, the bands. I find this attitude insulting to the bands, and I cannot understand how it can be justified.