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Author Topic: where are we going?  (Read 10186 times)

NelsonL

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where are we going?
« on: December 14, 2005, 12:06:00 pm »

Hey Bivouac et al,

Where do we stand on the "contest?" Don't want this to slip away.

Ideas I'm liking:

J. Hall Drum tracks
Open Tuning
Oblique Strategies

PS, didn't mean to start a new thread-- whoops.

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j.hall

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2005, 12:37:33 pm »

new thread is fine, the other one was getting confusing.

i like the three ideas liam laid out, let's hone it a bit, but keep it simple and open enough to not exclude any one.
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Daniel Farris

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2005, 01:47:11 pm »

rattleyour wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 17:06

Ideas I'm liking:

J. Hall Drum tracks
Open Tuning
Oblique Strategies


As I said, I'm down for whatever. But I'll wistfully confess that I was hoping to be able to share some interesting drum sounds (and drummers) I have access to.

I'd love to contribute in that department... at least to my own submission.

I have some ideas, but I've been stupid busy for the last two days, and I need another day to formulate my thoughts.

The Eno thing reminded me of a game Eno used on Bowie's "Outside" record.

http://tinyurl.com/c4wuv
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NelsonL

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2005, 01:59:24 pm »

bacon skin wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 10:47

rattleyour wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 17:06

Ideas I'm liking:

J. Hall Drum tracks
Open Tuning
Oblique Strategies


As I said, I'm down for whatever. But I'll wistfully confess that I was hoping to be able to share some interesting drum sounds (and drummers) I have access to.

I'd love to contribute in that department... at least to my own submission.

I have some ideas, but I've been stupid busy for the last two days, and I need another day to formulate my thoughts.

The Eno thing reminded me of a game Eno used on Bowie's "Outside" record.

http://tinyurl.com/c4wuv



I think the main reason for providing the drums is that it broadens the participation. These things are much more interesting when you get a good response.

Maybe we could have J. cut his drums to a grid thus allowing more ambitious folks like Bacon to re-cut there own drums easily.

Or, skip the grid and just use J's drumming as a click. I find filtering the hell out of an existing drum take can help transform it from "the beat" to a guide track. Doesn't always work though.

I dunno, maybe that defeats the purpose... not my call.

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Bivouac

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2005, 04:35:53 pm »

Ok, I completely agree that perhaps a drum track needs to be provided in order to bolster participation.  This time, however, we  could be more lenient on editing?  Maybe the track could be optional?

I think three cards should be drawn at the beginning, and we can all use them as they are needed.  Then, when the song is submitted, we can also submit a paragraph or so explaining how they were beneficial?  If everyone is allowed to apply a card as they wish, then I think we'll get a lot of cool interpretations of their meanings...

I also think an open (or non-standard) tuning is a great idea to promote creativity in this excercise.  The tuning can also be optional and we can all discuss its purpose and usage in the above paragraph.

If a drum track is to be provided, should we discuss what it should consist of?  Or let J. come up with something random?  Would Bacon Skin like to provide the track this time around?

Should we throw something really crazy in this excercise like a mandatory key change?
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NelsonL

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2005, 04:48:05 pm »

Bivouac wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 13:35

 Should we throw something really crazy in this excercise like a mandatory key change?



Thinking along those lines, how about different tunings for different sections of the song?


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floodstage

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2005, 07:07:18 pm »

rattleyour wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 16:48

Bivouac wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 13:35

 Should we throw something really crazy in this excercise like a mandatory key change?



Thinking along those lines, how about different tunings for different sections of the song?




Yikes!

Trying to make it even trickier yet, huh?

Bring it!

BTW, if J provides drums, that doesn't mean you can't run them thru a distortion box, bury them in the mix, and use your own drums does it?  (just in case you want to track your own drums)
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j.hall

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2005, 11:52:48 pm »

if cards are drawn they need to be adhered to.  there is little point in using the cards if we are all going to just blow them off to varying degrees.

the point of the cards is to create a "control" group.

bacon can provide drums.....i'm so swamped right now i have little hope of setting up my kit and doing anything you guys will actually be able to work with.

i had a friend ready to send me some SICK drum sounds, we can us those, or bacon's.

drums will be open ended this time.  use em, don't use em, chop em up, distort em...whatever.

the tuning thing will be in as well.  and i'd like there to be only one tuning and no key or root note restrictions.
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NelsonL

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2005, 03:24:04 pm »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 20:52

if cards are drawn they need to be adhered to.  there is little point in using the cards if we are all going to just blow them off to varying degrees.

the point of the cards is to create a "control" group.

bacon can provide drums.....i'm so swamped right now i have little hope of setting up my kit and doing anything you guys will actually be able to work with.

i had a friend ready to send me some SICK drum sounds, we can us those, or bacon's.

drums will be open ended this time.  use em, don't use em, chop em up, distort em...whatever.

the tuning thing will be in as well.  and i'd like there to be only one tuning and no key or root note restrictions.


Hey Bacon, are you down to deliver the drum tracks? Can you cut to a grid so we can ruin them with ease?
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Frob

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2005, 03:48:54 pm »

im sorry but i have no idea what is goin on.
mabey thats a good thing, because im still finishing up our new album.

j.hall

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2005, 04:34:45 pm »

frob, you'll have a better idea once this thread get's wrapped up.

then i'll post the whole thing with all the rules and what not and people will sign up to participate.
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Daniel Farris

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2005, 09:53:44 pm »

rattleyour wrote on Fri, 16 December 2005 20:24

Hey Bacon, are you down to deliver the drum tracks? Can you cut to a grid so we can ruin them with ease?



Sure.

Would you guys like to come up with some parameters? Tempo? Length? Anything? Or is it carte blanche?

I assume you'll want the individual wav files. I'm not sure I have the ftp space to host them. Anyone care to donate some ftp space?

DF
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Daniel Farris

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2005, 10:25:46 pm »

j.hall wrote on Thu, 15 December 2005 04:52

if cards are drawn they need to be adhered to.  there is little point in using the cards if we are all going to just blow them off to varying degrees.

the point of the cards is to create a "control" group.


Well, the cards aren't all as straightforward and easy to follow as the one I drew before. Most are deliberately vague, because the original idea was that they should be equally applicable to musicians, engineers, producers, and... painters. (The cards' co-author, the late Peter Schmidt was a painter.)

Another three at random:

1. Take away the elements in order of apparent non-importance.

2. Look closely at the most embarrassing details and amplify them.

3. Don't be afraid of things because they're easy to do.

So, while "follow the cards" is a fine rule, it might be a little difficult to enforce... unless I looked through the deck and specifically chose some that were more easily enforceable.

As for using them to create a "control," there is another way to use them. On the "Heroes" record, Bowie and Eno would each draw one, keep it a secret from each other, and follow it for the entire night. One particular night, they fought endlessly and discovered later that Bowie's card had said, "Fill every beat with something," and Eno's card had said, "Overtly resist change."

It might also be interesting to give each group (or person, or project, whatever) a different card.

[EDIT: We could also see that each musician (or part if one musician were playing multiple parts) got a different card.]

I don't know. Which ever the group prefers.

DF
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NelsonL

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2005, 03:01:02 am »

bacon skin wrote on Fri, 16 December 2005 18:53

rattleyour wrote on Fri, 16 December 2005 20:24

Hey Bacon, are you down to deliver the drum tracks? Can you cut to a grid so we can ruin them with ease?



Sure.

Would you guys like to come up with some parameters? Tempo? Length? Anything? Or is it carte blanche?

I assume you'll want the individual wav files. I'm not sure I have the ftp space to host them. Anyone care to donate some ftp space?

DF


I don't have an FTP to offer-- but we could potentially use yousendit.com instead (thanks, Compasspnt.)

As for the drums, I only ask that they be "just right." If Steven Drozd is available that'd be perfect.

The last two sentances are in jest.

I'm sure whatever you come up with will be cool. Anyone with a more developed opinion should please speak up.

As for the cards, I think the interpretive aspect is a strength.
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floodstage

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Re: where are we going?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2005, 01:34:42 pm »

I don't really care how good the drums are or if they are on a grid.

For that matter, if the drums were trash cans and old pans that would be okay by me.

Stupid idea #603:  insert non musical household noise into your song.  (blender - sump pump - vacuum cleaner - etc)
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