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Author Topic: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?  (Read 17079 times)

The Resonater

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Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« on: December 12, 2005, 02:22:01 pm »

Well, I guess the title says it all.  Has anyone heard either the Wunder CM7 or the Wagner U47w?  Both are "recreations" of an original U47, and I wonder what kind of sound either one offers.  They're both quite rare, so if anyone out there has any opinions, please let me know!

Thanks in advance,
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The Resonater

compasspnt

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 03:12:02 pm »

There was a recent thread here about the Wunder.  As I recall, there weren't many, if any, who had heard it.

I spoke to Gunter Wagner when I was in Australia recently, and tried to listen to one of his, but time didn't allow it for either of us.  I don't think either mic uses the original tube, but Gunter claims to have a solution for that.
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Ozzy

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2005, 09:51:06 pm »

I think the Wagner uses the EF14 valve.
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jack pettit

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2005, 10:24:58 am »

I own a Wagner U47 short body/satin top with a K47 capsule

I paid 5540.00 and waited about 12 weeks for it.

What would you like to know?
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compasspnt

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2005, 02:16:07 pm »

jack pettit wrote on Thu, 15 December 2005 10:24

I own a Wagner U47 short body/satin top with a K47 capsule

I paid 5540.00 and waited about 12 weeks for it.

What would you like to know?



Everything.
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jack pettit

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2005, 05:47:28 pm »

I have never used an old U47 so I can't compare it to that.      I can't do a scientific test so I will tell you my impression of the microphone.
I have been using it with a Manley Tube pre EQ 500

It sounds good, full and smooth.
I think to be clear on top and still be very smooth is a big deal.

It has another virtue, it sounds intimate.
I don't know how but it seems to reveal just a little more about a vocalist.
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2005, 04:22:57 am »

What tube is Mr. Wagner using in your Wagner U47?

Erik Sikkema
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jack pettit

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2005, 10:16:27 am »

Go to wagner-microphones.com

All the information is there.
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Ozzy

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2005, 10:58:21 am »

Actually (the website) skirts around the valve issue.

It says it's a Telefunken but not a VF14. There is a picture of it and it looks like an EF14. It says it's similar to the VF14, apart from heater current which sounds like it's a EF14.
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danickstr

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2005, 03:12:12 pm »

i think it is the EF14.  There is a white paper on it that I found once and that rings a bell.  i will look for it, but not sure where it was.
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volki

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2005, 01:34:21 pm »

IIRC, a local vintage mic tech who knows gunter told me something different: in contrast to the "obvious" substitution VF14 - EF14, it's actually EF12k getting used in wagner's mic's.

anyway, since we have the owner of one of them right here, it should be easy to confirm - all you need is a screwdriver Wink
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Volker Meitz

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2008, 01:59:42 pm »

It is EF12 tube, with modified filament.
Sonically it is 100% original U47 ballpark.
I'm happy owner of Wagner 47 and still have to find vintage original (tried almost dozen of them) that would force me to conside Wagner's inferior. Contrary, in several ocassions Wagner was obvious preferred choice over originals.
Compared to Wunder, although I think Wunder is great mic, Wagner is nuance nicer and cleaner in top end.
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Steve Hudson

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2008, 04:07:16 pm »

I've had a Wunder CM7 since September and it's a fabulous LDC. I have not A/B'ed it with a vintage U47 (though I have recorded with several and know what to expect) it has the same general sound - detailed, full-bodied, in-your-face. It's my go-to mic for my own tenor vocal and it is often my first choice on acoustic guitar.
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Flowers Studio

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 12:29:38 am »

We've had a Wunder CM7 (M7 capsule) for about six months. It's a fantastically useful mic, great on vocals, acoustic guitar, violin, basically anything. Very "big" sounding, yet very clear. I use the Wunder in the same applications I have used U47's in the past and am very happy with the results. People really enjoy singing through the mic. It's also a great (and rather expensive!) tambourine mic. I've been tempted often but haven't had the nerve to roll the dice and buy a vintage 47. The CM7 works great for us and I'm happy we bought it.

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Ed Ackerson
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seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 04:09:37 pm »

EF12k's Are in RFT Leipzig 7151,  Which IMO is a Beautiful sounding mic(line level) That is why there are (2) EF12k's.


Hi Ed,

Do you have the Wunder in MPLS?

care to shoot it out with My clones? I have some different capsules in them  Including (I  Think/deduction) the same one you have (Siegfried T "new" M7-esque attempt) I like those also, A NOS k47(brass and cream), and an NOS M7.  I think the "new" M7-esque attempt capsules sound nice  and I would guess from my puttering  this a bit of the "clear" sound you are experiencing.

Can you swap heads with a standard 47?  --oh I remember,   I believe the wunder(guess/deduction) is a "flea" body if so the answer is yes--be careful also (I have a 'pre-flea" body/head)--Why can't they get the dome right sheez.

The plastic inside the head is more brittle and I think a nice drop or tipped stand could give it a more special result than a less brittle material...  who knows--Also might fix the dome shape haha.


It would be fun to hear your body/amp with the different capsule and visa versa--  

(BTW - Ed has a very nice drum room.  And probably what most people would consider a dream set up of a building/build out.)

john



Steve Hudson

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2008, 05:25:56 pm »

seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Thu, 17 April 2008 15:09

Can you swap heads with a standard 47?  --oh I remember,   I believe the wunder(guess/deduction) is a "flea" body if so the answer is yes--be careful also (I have a 'pre-flea" body/head)--Why can't they get the dome right sheez.

The plastic inside the head is more Brittle and I think a nice drop or tipped stand could give it a more special result than a less brittle material...  who knows--Also might fix the dome shape haha.



Mike Castoro explained to me last week that the reason for not copying the flattened dome of the original U47 grille cap is for structural integrity. The flattened style is more succeptible to dents, whereas a rounded dome is stronger (remember the VW Beetle commercials making this point?)
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side."

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J.J. Blair

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2008, 06:11:43 pm »

Yeah, but it looks weird to me.  It's always irked me.  Believe me, if I had one, I'd be flattening that thing.
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Flowers Studio

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2008, 05:07:06 pm »

The Flea round dome is a bummer aesthetically. I hope to never put that mic in a situation where the "structural integrity" of the basket will be tested!
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Ed Ackerson
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kats

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2008, 07:16:03 pm »

Quote:

Mike Castoro explained to me last week that the reason for not copying the flattened dome of the original U47 grille cap is for structural integrity. The flattened style is more succeptible to dents, whereas a rounded dome is stronger (remember the VW Beetle commercials making this point?)


OTOH the Neumann "flat head" is a much more robust basket than the Flea basket - my bet is that the Neumann basket could take more abuse. If you ever look at the two side by side, the flea basket just looks and feels cheap by comparison.
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Tony K.
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seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2008, 10:51:41 am »

kats wrote on Fri, 18 April 2008 18:16

Quote:

Mike Castoro explained to me last week that the reason for not copying the flattened dome of the original U47 grille cap is for structural integrity. The flattened style is more succeptible to dents, whereas a rounded dome is stronger (remember the VW Beetle commercials making this point?)


OTOH the Neumann "flat head" is a much more robust basket than the Flea basket - my bet is that the Neumann basket could take more abuse. If you ever look at the two side by side, the flea basket just looks and feels cheap by comparison.


I talked with Mike beofre also,  He has to say something right?  He said a bunch of stuff to me also.  (Is he using Peluso capsules in his C12?)

I think that it is sad all of the vintage U47s will now need to be modded to have a more rounded dome...

If structual integrity was the corcern,  They have bigger fish to fry than the dome!  Hows about that plastic..   I bought them early one so maybe they fixed this maybe not.

"Flea" was selling those  on something Like """" vintage mic  """"  .com  before Mike was using them--  I would guess thats what made it harder to get them @ some point..    Business is as does..  I'll stop here to avert attack.

I own 8 of these mics-  I can be the 1st to say the dome looks stupid.  

I do not buy the spin on it either-  If it is true they would have done a better job with the rest of it perhaps--  if it really really is true-- thats a poor choice in my book-

If anything,   a curved line seemd to have more exposure to being dented than the REAL baskets.   IMO


MagnetoSound

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2008, 12:10:53 pm »

Isn't it more likely part of the trademark issue?
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2008, 01:05:13 pm »

No.  AFAIK, the only grill that Neumann has trademarked is the sloping grill found on their other mics, like the U87.  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

aileka

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2008, 03:42:01 pm »

Concerning the Flea 47 basket, I just saw today, in Paris, a recently delivered Flea 47 and the top of the basket has been changed, it is now flat, to look more like the original U47. For you info. Sounded damn good too.
alain le kim
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aileka

kats

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2008, 05:12:05 pm »

Hopefully it is as solid as an original Neumann basket as well!
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Tony K.
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seedyunderbelly.com

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2008, 08:24:26 pm »

Jeez,  I wonder if ther is a fix for the dumb looking ones..

J.J. Blair

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2008, 09:13:35 pm »

John, there's always the gravity mod.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Klaus Heyne

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2008, 12:47:04 am »

This is a  no-brainer:

If you don't like the dome of the replica, remove the basket, place it right side up on a hard, flat piece of wood situated on a no-give surface, like a work bench or table.  

With a flat, soft, piece of wood as an in-between, use a leather/hide mallet or similar low- impact hammer, and gently tap the hammer onto the flat piece of wood which you have placed so that it is parallel with the table on which the basket rests. Knock gently until the dome is flattened to your liking.
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Klaus Heyne
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kats

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2008, 02:02:47 pm »

Kind of like a Fender Relic...

Pre-damage the instrument (mic) call it historic, and charge extra.

Klaus, I'm not convinced that you are 100% serious. If you are, how about a little background on the basket making process employed by Neumann to create these "flat heads".


PS, I think you may get a more even and precise result by using a vice.

PPS, on the Wunder site where they do a side by side comaprison of the CM7 and an original U47, doesn't the basket on the U47 look like a Flea basket? Quite disingenuous if so.
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Tony K.
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2008, 05:07:01 pm »

kats wrote on Sun, 20 April 2008 11:02


Klaus, I'm not convinced that you are 100% serious. If you are, how about a little background on the basket making process employed by Neumann to create these "flat heads".



Background of the basket making process?  Do I spend all of my waking hours with this stuff, or do I have a life? There comes a point where I have to say: enough-there's life beyond mics!

I've always domed the baskets that way, in and (in case of dents) out. Works perfectly well. But I give you permission to use a vise!
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Klaus Heyne
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kats

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2008, 10:38:03 pm »

Quote:

There comes a point where I have to say enough-there's life beyond mics!


Well this is hardly the thread to draw THAT line Smile

The only reason I ask is out of bewilderment as to why the imitation U47 makers do not copy such an obvious physical feature of the mic. Personally I thought the process might have been more complicated than a hammer, but if that's all there is to it, it just strikes me as odd.

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Tony K.
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compasspnt

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2008, 10:56:31 pm »

kats wrote on Sun, 20 April 2008 22:38

...a hammer...just strikes me as odd.



Then how do you think the microphone feels?
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kats

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2008, 11:15:47 pm »

Like an angel being kissed in the bowels?
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Tony K.
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Matt Allen

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2008, 05:51:35 pm »

One thing I have noticed is a relationship between Flea Microphones and Wunder. Originally Wunder bought the bodies from Flea. I also noticed that Flea and Wunder build basically the same microphones, U47, C12, M49, M50.  Wunder is a USA distributer for Flea.

I pose the question of when buying a Wunder Mic, are you just buying a Flea?
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2008, 10:27:12 pm »

BTW, Barry sent me his Tele-USA U47M, and I took the basket off, put it in the wood vise, and flattened it a bit.  The profile isn't exactly the same as my Neumann, but it's surely an improvement.  I didn't trust the welds on the basket to try to flatten it any further.  

BTW, I wish they nickel plated the basket screws, and did a translucent switch.  That would look so much nicer.  Maybe they changed that in the last couple years?

I also don;t understand why Tele USA didn't make their badges the same as on the real ones.  They did it on the 251.  It would have looked so much cooler.

index.php/fa/8640/0/
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Barry Hufker

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Re: Has anyone heard the Wunder CM7 or Wagner U47w?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2008, 10:44:22 pm »

I believe Wunder is the U.S. importer for Flea.  At least that is what was written to me some months ago in an email from Flea.


My... My... U-47... What have you done???!!!


Wink
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