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Author Topic: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness  (Read 9334 times)

lagerfeldt

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2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« on: December 12, 2005, 12:15:55 pm »

I'm a little weirded out about this..

I just received a 24 bit WAV file, probably from a PC Windows user. I can play it from QuickTime but not correctly from iTunes (unlike AIFF files, WAV files seem to break up the audio in iTunes).

Problem is I can't import it into Logic at all, reports a read error. Since it works 100% from Quicktime I'm wondering why.

I tried converting it from WAV to AIFF via CDXtract but it won't recognize it.

When I look in iTunes it reports 2822 Kbps on the file while every other 24 bit WAV or AIFF file I have (from Mac or PC Windows users) report as 2116 Kbps. Why is this so?

All my 16bit files report as 1411 Kbps, so 2822 Kbps would be the logical rate for 24 bit, but isn't so. And why does this particular WAV file behave so badly?

Any suggestions appreciated.

bblackwood

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 12:19:06 pm »

You sure it's not 32 bit?

Looks like 32/44.1 to me.
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Brad Blackwood
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jdg

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2005, 12:23:42 pm »

32bit/96k is 6147.90 kbits/sec

in quick time, open the file and hit apple+I (get info)

tells you all the format/data rate etc.
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john mcCaig
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lagerfeldt

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 04:22:34 pm »

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check it when I get back in the studio tomorrow.

Never had anyone sending me 32 bits before, since I always clearly instruct people to send me 24 bits.

Ronny

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2005, 01:02:06 am »

lagerfeldt wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 16:22

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check it when I get back in the studio tomorrow.

Never had anyone sending me 32 bits before, since I always clearly instruct people to send me 24 bits.


I work with 32 bit formats received intentially, but once in awhile someone will send me 32 bit thinking it's 24 bit. What probably happened in your case is that they just forgot to convert to 24 bit and sent you the native files. You can have proprietary native formats that are 32 bit .wav's that are only compatible on the host system for some reason. I'm surprised that Quicktime played it though. My QT doesn't play 32 bit, or at least I didn't think that it did.  
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MT Groove

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2005, 03:20:10 am »

As others suggested, I think it's a 32 Bit WAV file.  Quicktime will play 32 Bit files.  Roxio Jam will play it as well.  From what I remember, Logic won't import 32 Bit files.  On a Mac, TC Spark XL, DSP Quattro, Cubase or Nuendo will open them.   I am not sure about Waveburner.  Maybe Jerry Tubb could shed some light on that.
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2005, 04:08:46 am »

MT Groove wrote on Tue, 13 December 2005 02:20

As others suggested, I think it's a 32 Bit WAV file.  Quicktime will play 32 Bit files.  Roxio Jam will play it as well.  From what I remember, Logic won't import 32 Bit files.  On a Mac, TC Spark XL, DSP Quattro, Cubase or Nuendo will open them.   I am not sure about Waveburner.  Maybe Jerry Tubb could shed some light on that.


WaveBurner (or PT for that matter) will not open 32 bit files... must be dithered to 24 bit wih Peak or Barbabatch.

cheers
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Terra Nova Mastering
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lagerfeldt

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2005, 06:08:08 am »

Thanks!

The file was 32 bit float, so I got a new one in 24 bit.

Any explanation on why 1411 kbps is 16 bits, and 2116 but not 2822 kbps is 24 bits?

bblackwood

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2005, 06:17:16 am »

lagerfeldt wrote on Tue, 13 December 2005 05:08

Any explanation on why 1411 kbps is 16 bits, and 2116 but not 2822 kbps is 24 bits?

16 (bits) X 44100 (fs) X 2 (channels) = 1411 kbps
24 (bits) X 44100 (fs) X 2 (channels) = 2116 kbps
32 (bits) X 44100 (fs) X 2 (channels) = 2822 kbps
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Brad Blackwood
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MT Groove

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2005, 02:18:25 pm »

You might want to get yourself a copy of DSP Quattro for situations like this.  It's cheap and can be very useful.  I get 32 Bit files from clients sometimes.  I use Spark XL and it handles them just fine.  
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Ronny

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2005, 05:23:34 pm »

lagerfeldt wrote on Tue, 13 December 2005 06:08

Thanks!

The file was 32 bit float, so I got a new one in 24 bit.

Any explanation on why 1411 kbps is 16 bits, and 2116 but not 2822 kbps is 24 bits?



Kpbs is just the rate that audio data has to stream to be heard in real time without buffering stops. It's mainly relative when the audio is being audibly heard or transfered for example over the net with audible streaming. To stream stereo 32 bit with sampling rate of 44.1k, you need 2882kbps. 8 bit you need 705.5. Double that you get 1611 for 16/44.1, triple that to 24 bits you get 2116.5kbps and quadruple that for 32 bit at 2882kbps. As per Brad's post that's stereo, you halve the kbps for mono streaming. It also depends on the operating system, for example if it uses the 1,000 bit's = 1 kilobit, it will be slightly less than using the 1024 bit's = 1 kilobit system. Brad's numbers reflect the 1024 system. This discrepancy crops up sometimes when people FTP me files. If it's say a 102MB stereo file, on the 1024 system, it will show 98MB on the 1000 os system. Download the 98MB to a 1024 system and it shows as 102MB again. I had a client that was concerned that he was losing some of his data when he saw his files losing a few megs, but all data is there, just that the kb reference is different on the two systems, so you get a different file size count.
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lagerfeldt

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Re: 2116 Kbps vs. 2822 Kbps weirdness
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2005, 03:35:09 am »

Thanks Ronny, I geddit now
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