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Author Topic: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?  (Read 6753 times)

andrea19837

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Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« on: December 11, 2005, 11:49:56 am »

Hi I am new here Smile  

very nice place..

i ask you if you now what audio sound card mount the akm 5394a chip for AD conversion..

i know that pro tools inteface 192, and the love/ate emu series m (1212m cost 200)

i was looking to buy a new sound card with this chip..
i have got a motu 828MKII but conversion suck..very poor..

regrads
andrea.
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2005, 01:19:05 pm »

andrea19837 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 16:49

Hi I am new here Smile  

very nice place..

i ask you if you now what audio sound card mount the akm 5394a chip for AD conversion..

i know that pro tools inteface 192, and the love/ate emu series m (1212m cost 200)

i was looking to buy a new sound card with this chip..
i have got a motu 828MKII but conversion suck..very poor..

regrads
andrea.



Why does it have to be this particular chip?
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bobkatz

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2005, 01:24:14 pm »

Jon Hodgson wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 13:19



Why does it have to be this particular chip?



I second that question! If there's one thing that Dan Lavry has tried to teach here, it is that implementation usually counts a lot more than topology. No chip can realize its full potential unless the board it's mounted on is well designed.

BK
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andrea19837

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2005, 01:25:16 pm »

do you know something better than this? Razz

 http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak5394a/ak5394a. html

120 Dynamic range..

the poor motu has only:

Interface Dynamic range in dB
2408 Mk3     108
24I/O        110
HD192        120
2408 Mk2     105
1296         117
1224         116
828          105
828 Mk2      108
896          110

I have a 828MKII and so 108..


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Jon Hodgson

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2005, 01:35:02 pm »

andrea19837 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 18:25

do you know something better than this? Razz

  http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak5394a/ak5394a. html

120 Dynamic range..

the poor motu has only:

Interface Dynamic range in dB
2408 Mk3     108
24I/O        110
HD192        120
2408 Mk2     105
1296         117
1224         116
828          105
828 Mk2      108
896          110

I have a 828MKII and so 108..





Well I'll leave it to Dan to explain things more completely and put these figures into perspective.

But let's just start by saying that you can put the best chip in the world into a mediocre circuit, and the performance will only be mediocre.
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andrea19837

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2005, 02:27:30 pm »

thank evrybody guys..nice words..


so do we suggest me to stop looking for best chip and only listen to my ear?



PS: sorry for my poor english, only 98 db dynamic range.. Very Happy
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2005, 02:45:09 pm »

andrea19837 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 19:27

thank evrybody guys..nice words..


so do we suggest me to stop looking for best chip and only listen to my ear?



PS: sorry for my poor english, only 98 db dynamic range.. Very Happy


No, not at all, I'm a big believer in measurement and analysis...

But you have to consider the whole system, not just the converter chip. And you have to consider a number of measurements, not a single one.

Also you have to be wary of numbers quoted on datasheets and advertising material, they tend to give a best case performance of a single measurement in what is often not a realistic situation.

The thing is that when you're getting towards the sorts of noise figures we're talking about here, a small circuit difference could completely swamp the difference in performance between two converter ICs.

This chip appears at first glance to be a very good one, it may well be, and therefore gives engineers the opportunity to build a high quality converter, but it doesn't neccessarily follow that a converter built using this chip will be superior.

I'd really like to read Dan's input on this matter though, because it's very much his area of expertise... I know only know enough to be wary.
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2005, 02:57:59 pm »

Both Genex in their GXA8 and Weiss in the ADC2 use the AKM5394a chip. Both very different implemented. Just listen to both and compare, if you have a chance.

Erik Sikkema
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2005, 03:03:10 pm »

And I have no idea what chip is in it, but the Lavry AD122-96MkII has a 127dB dynamic range with no A-weighting.

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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2005, 04:23:08 pm »

Then the Lavry 122 probably uses gain ranging and use two converters per channel. The Weiss uses correlation technigue, which gives a profit from 3 dB over using one single converter, this is a different technigue than gainranging. The Genex GXA8 uses 1 converter per channel and no DSP.

Erik Sikkema
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

bobkatz

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2005, 07:35:16 pm »

andrea19837 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 14:27

thank evrybody guys..nice words..


so do we suggest me to stop looking for best chip and only listen to my ear?



PS: sorry for my poor english, only 98 db dynamic range.. Very Happy

That's a great line. The thing is that single number d.r. specs do not tell the story. Look for high resolution FFT plots of noise floor in the presence of multitone test signals. That will tell you a lot about how well the manufacturer designed his pc board and case. Then there's jitter susceptibility--you won't often see that specified. Finally, in the absence of specs, look for manufacturers with a good reputation for quallity and attention to detail.
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One says-this is old and therefore good.
The other says-this is new and therefore better."

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Jim Williams

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2005, 11:56:07 am »

Cirrus Logic/Crystal CS5381 = better.

Good luck finding it in pro audio gear.
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danlavry

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2005, 02:36:47 pm »

Jim Williams wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 16:56

Cirrus Logic/Crystal CS5381 = better.

Good luck finding it in pro audio gear.



Hi Jim,

Please explain why you think that CS5381 is better. I am not saying you are correct or incorrect, but having such statements (X is better then Y) without additional comments is going to turn this forum into endless subjective hype.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com
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zmix

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Re: Whic sound card ship with akm5394a?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2005, 02:53:16 pm »

andrea19837 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 13:25

do you know something better than this? Razz

  http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak5394a/ak5394a. html

120 Dynamic range..

the poor motu has only:

Interface Dynamic range in dB
2408 Mk3     108
24I/O        110
HD192        120
2408 Mk2     105
1296         117
1224         116
828          105
828 Mk2      108
896          110

I have a 828MKII and so 108..



I don't understand the question... the Motu HD192 uses the AKM 5394, and according to the chart also achieves the spec of 120dB. What is it that you are looking for beyond this?



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