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Author Topic: Time for another song/mix contest?  (Read 3204 times)

Bivouac

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Time for another song/mix contest?
« on: December 10, 2005, 10:07:35 pm »

I know they're not really contests, but demonstrations or a musical "Pot Luck" if you will.  I can't really think of the word I want to use...

Being that I'm not really in the PSW "in-crowd" or whatever, I don't really know if there is a CAPE event going or anything that would keep everyone too busy, but I think it's high time we did something again on this forum.  The drum track thing got a lot of participation, but that was, like, eight months ago...

Anyone in?
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Rivers

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2005, 11:17:06 pm »

I'm in.
I really liked the drum track thing.
It was super cool to hear all the different yet equally cool ideas that sprung out of a drum take.
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j.hall

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2005, 11:21:35 pm »

come up with an idea of what we'll all do and i'll cast my vote if i'm in or not.

i'm always happy to facilitate the whole thing as usual.
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NelsonL

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 12:01:50 am »

The drum thing was really fun-- for whatever reason the "write a song based on a concept" thing didn't work for me.

But I might be up for some kind of project.

How about something that incorporates Eno's "oblique strategies" approach. I don't actually know that much about the content of the cards aside from what I've read, but it could a cool way to set some parameters.

If folks are interested, google reveals a few online versions-- so it could be feasible.
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Daniel Farris

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2005, 12:11:17 am »

rattleyour wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 05:01

How about something that incorporates Eno's "oblique strategies" approach. I don't actually know that much about the content of the cards aside from what I've read, but it could a cool way to set some parameters.


I have one of the original first edition sets from the 70's. I'll be glad to be the Keeper of the Oblique Strategies.

Here: I'll draw one at random. Hang on.

"Abandon normal instruments."

Anyway, propose a scenario, and I'll be glad to participate if possible / appropriate.

DF
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Bivouac

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2005, 03:21:29 am »

The Oblique Strategies thing is really cool.  I'll admit I had to look it up to find out what it is, but I'm glad I did.  I kind of want a deck of my own (and I'm interested in what the fourth edition and up are all about...)

Are we talking about using the cards to create lyrical content or a musical aesthetic?  Having only read a handfull of examples, I guess I'm not sure how you suggest to use them...

I might have a pretty cheesey idea that would be challenging at least.  I think I'll wait until someone completes the above idea before I introduce it though...

...I like the possibilities of the cards more

My only request in all of this would be no provided chord progressions.  I'm open to anything else, however...

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NelsonL

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2005, 12:10:23 pm »

bacon skin wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 21:11

rattleyour wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 05:01

How about something that incorporates Eno's "oblique strategies" approach. I don't actually know that much about the content of the cards aside from what I've read, but it could a cool way to set some parameters.


I have one of the original first edition sets from the 70's. I'll be glad to be the Keeper of the Oblique Strategies.

Here: I'll draw one at random. Hang on.

"Abandon normal instruments."




That would be an awesome starting point-- maybe I'm insane though. But normal is a slippery term to start with, so that could go many different ways.

I don't really know how we would structure this per se. Maybe something like one card for writing, one for basic tracks, one card for overdubbing etc.

If a card just isn't applicable to the task at hand, Bacon could just draw again.

And yeah, the fixed chord progression thing isn't my bag either.


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j.hall

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2005, 12:47:56 pm »

if we are going to set restrictions on writing like we have in the past i'd say that maybe picking an alternate tuning would be as far as i'd go.

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Daniel Farris

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2005, 01:06:38 pm »

j.hall wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 17:47

if we are going to set restrictions on writing like we have in the past i'd say that maybe picking an alternate tuning would be as far as i'd go.


I use CGDAEG (low to high) exclusively, so I'd welcome that.

So, would someone please catch me up? How do these things usually work? I've never done this before. Are we going to collaborate or work separately and compare the results? Pardon my ignorance of tradition.

I'm down for whatever, provided interest is sufficient. I'd just like to know how it's done.

DF
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NelsonL

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2005, 01:30:30 pm »

bacon skin wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 10:06

j.hall wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 17:47

if we are going to set restrictions on writing like we have in the past i'd say that maybe picking an alternate tuning would be as far as i'd go.


I use CGDAEG (low to high) exclusively, so I'd welcome that.

So, would someone please catch me up? How do these things usually work? I've never done this before. Are we going to collaborate or work separately and compare the results? Pardon my ignorance of tradition.

I'm down for whatever, provided interest is sufficient. I'd just like to know how it's done.

DF


An alternate tuning could satisfy the "don't use normal instruments" card.

Maybe we should be using the cards to figure out what the rules are?

Bacon, as far as I know we're making the rules for this project up as we go. So everyone should feel free to chime in... I  certainly have.

Collaboration adds additional logistical issues; we haven't done it that way in the past-- except that we all used the same drums tracks for the last deal. That was the whole idea for that one.

In addition to the prescribed tuning-- what about using a programmed beat as a starting point, but with almost no restrictions, so you could manipulate the track or merely use it as a click to overdub drums with.

I'm not married to any of these ideas, so feel free to shoot them down-- I don't want to make this a drag for anyone.  
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Bivouac

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2005, 02:16:25 pm »

I like the alternate tuning idea since it seems we are all (or primarily) guitar players.  It allows for enough freedom because there are no given chord changes, but has enough commonality to tie everyone's songs together.  

I do propose that we don't go any lower than D on the 6th string, however.  I know I'd personally have a TON of intonation problems going to C unless I bought some heavier strings and setup the guitars.  I wouldn't frown on tuning whatever tuning we decide to use down a whole step though if that's what you choose to do.

We should set up a poll in another thread with about six possibilities and have everyone vote.  I propose something crazy like:

-DACEBE
-DADF#AD
-DADEAD
-DAEBF#A (Bacon Skin's, only a full step higher)

You guys throw out a few more for consideration...

I think we need to establish criteria right now within the songwriting/recording process that we can draw cards for.  Everyone writes/mixes something based on the five or so cards?

I liked the starter card: Don't Use Normal Instruments.  I think the alternate tuning would suffice there.  We need to draw cards around something like lyric structure/ideas, overdubs, arrangement, mix, etc.  Again, somebody throw some more ideas out there and I'll try and organize it a little bit.  I already nominate Bacon Skin as keeper of the cards...
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NelsonL

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2005, 02:37:36 pm »

Bivouac wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 11:16


-DADEAD



Where'd that Oedipus thread go?

So as for the alt tuning thing, I would prefer tunings that don't require tuning any string above its standard pitch. I find it much easier to drop down as in the above quasi-Freudian tuning.

Oh yeah, low C is too low for me too. But I could always regress to 5 strings if that tuning is popular.
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j.hall

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2005, 04:59:26 pm »

argue about the alt tunings all you want.  i couldn't care less.

i quite enjoy a little kyuss in my diet, so if we tune the 6th string to A that could be really cool.

the whole point of these things is to expand your mind, to be forced to work with something you would never gravitate toward on your own.

i started these things intentionally to serve two purposes

1.  to spark creativity outside of your normal creative work flow.  as musicians and engineers/producers we establish working habits that are comfortable to us, and have been successful in the past.  being forced to go outside of that comfort zone is scary but often leads to exploring new areas of your own self.  this is a good thing, IMO.

2.  as producers and AE's we typically confront situations with only a single mindset.  we gravitate towards bands we like and that we easily identify with musically and creatively.  being forced to move outside of that can teach you that music is music and you can work with anything given the focus and motivation.

the restrictions we place on these "events" shouldn't be something you guys are necessarily comfortable with.  they should be something that forces you into new places.  away from your comfort zone and whatever formulas you have developed over the years.

these things all tie in to what i've been trying to do with this forum for a few years now.  trying to break down a lot of the walls indie rockers put up.  are you a music lover and artist or are you just a guy in a hot topic shirt, white belt, beard, and walmart velcro shoes?

get my point?

i'll start a new thread for this when i think we have something worthy.....right now we're just brainstorming.  let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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NelsonL

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2005, 05:16:59 pm »

j.hall wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 13:59



argue about the alt tunings all you want. i couldn't care less.

i quite enjoy a little kyuss in my diet, so if we tune the 6th string to A that could be really cool.

the whole point of these things is to expand your mind, to be forced to work with something you would never gravitate toward on your own.

i started these things intentionally to serve two purposes

1. to spark creativity outside of your normal creative work flow. as musicians and engineers/producers we establish working habits that are comfortable to us, and have been successful in the past. being forced to go outside of that comfort zone is scary but often leads to exploring new areas of your own self. this is a good thing, IMO.

2. as producers and AE's we typically confront situations with only a single mindset. we gravitate towards bands we like and that we easily identify with musically and creatively. being forced to move outside of that can teach you that music is music and you can work with anything given the focus and motivation.

the restrictions we place on these "events" shouldn't be something you guys are necessarily comfortable with. they should be something that forces you into new places. away from your comfort zone and whatever formulas you have developed over the years.

these things all tie in to what i've been trying to do with this forum for a few years now. trying to break down a lot of the walls indie rockers put up. are you a music lover and artist or are you just a guy in a hot topic shirt, white belt, beard, and walmart velcro shoes?

get my point?

i'll start a new thread for this when i think we have something worthy.....right now we're just brainstorming. let's not get ahead of ourselves.





My belt is brown, it's from Bates Bros. in Stillwater OK. I got it from my grandfather's closet after he passed away.

Therefore... I quit!

Tune your guitar to your first name for all I care.

OK, seriously-- I don't really care what the tuning is. Let's just say alternate tuning TBD and figure out what else we're doing so His Royal Highness the Thread Master will give us a venue.  

As for getting out of the comfort zone, I hereby volunteer to two hand tap my entire composition.

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pg666

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2005, 05:35:39 pm »

just some ideas:

-record a song (minimum of 3 instruments) with only 1 mic (of your choice)

-make a song where the goal is to make all the sounds unrecognizable from their sources. if others can tell what's what, you 'lose'

-find an old, short silent film and have everyone compose a soundtrack for it.

-make the worst song you possibly can. take all the elements you feel make music horrible and exploit all of them as far as you can. (though this is one is probably more interesting 'in theory')



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floodstage

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2005, 06:23:00 pm »

I enjoyed participating in the last "exercise".  It was a lot of fun to attempt to write something to a drum track that was completely different than what I'm used to playing.

The drums being so different from what I'm used to (and dealing with the stumble towards the end) was what made it a stretch and thus interesting for me.

I would say that if you go with an alternate tuning to make things interesting, why not specify that everyone use a tuning that they do not normally play.

On a somewhat related note, I noticed that the last exercise had quite a few entries.   I wondered if participation was good because drums were provided.  You didn't have to come up with drums so anyone with a bedroom studio could knock out an entry.

Discussion after the fact was almost nil (and I'm to blame as much as the next guy on that).  That was a bummer.  Heck, Fibes never even owned up to which one was his!

Just came up with an idea.

How about requiring an altenate tuning that that person does not normally play AND prohibit drums altogether?

Now that would be different!
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Bivouac

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2005, 06:45:03 pm »

rattleyour wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 15:16

Let's just say alternate tuning TBD and figure out what else we're doing so His Royal Highness the Thread Master will give us a venue.  




Whoa!

I certainly didn't mean to come off as controlling.  I'm just so excited that I want to get the ball rolling.  Believe me, I'd be more than happy to just participate...

Did I understand you correctly?

Again, I think the alt tuning thing is a great idea because it ties everything together but still allows for so much freedom.  I could care less about the tuning too.  I'd love to try something new that someone else enjoys--just throwing out some ideas.  I think everyone just selecting a tuning they normally don't use is a great idea as well...

DADEAD doesn't have anything above standard pitch--it's all down.  I've only been able to write one song in it, but it turned out pretty well.  Lot's of cool dissonances...Love the observation by the way.  I'm calling it the "Dead Dad" tuning from now on...

I had an idea of doing, like, a murder mystery game where everyone selects a character in a house.  Like I mentioned above, cheesey, but it would be a great exercise in character development within the context of verse.  Almost like the Canterbury Tales, but set to music...

...We could then look at some provided evidence and figure out who is guilty.  You know: "The indie poseur, at The Bottleneck, with his pretentions..."
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NelsonL

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2005, 06:54:33 pm »

Bivouac wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 15:45

rattleyour wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 15:16

Let's just say alternate tuning TBD and figure out what else we're doing so His Royal Highness the Thread Master will give us a venue.  




Whoa!

I certainly didn't mean to come off as controlling.  I'm just so excited that I want to get the ball rolling.  Believe me, I'd be more than happy to just participate...

Did I understand you correctly?

Again, I think the alt tuning thing is a great idea because it ties everything together but still allows for so much freedom.  I could care less about the tuning too.  I'd love to try something new that someone else enjoys--just throwing out some ideas.  I think everyone just selecting a tuning they normally don't use is a great idea as well...

DADEAD doesn't have anything above standard pitch--it's all down.  I've only been able to write one song in it, but it turned out pretty well.  Lot's of cool dissonances...Love the observation by the way.  I'm calling it the "Dead Dad" tuning from now on...

I had an idea of doing, like, a murder mystery game where everyone selects a character in a house.  Like I mentioned above, cheesey, but it would be a great exercise in character development within the context of verse.  Almost like the Canterbury Tales, but set to music...

...We could then look at some provided evidence and figure out who is guilty.  You know: "The indie poseur, at The Bottleneck, with his pretentions..."




No, no. Not you Bivouac. I was jokingly flaming J. Hall-- not directed at you in the least my friend. 100% good natured ribbing of our esteemed moderator.

And yes, that's why I picked out DADEAD in particular, no need to pitch things up where the string tension gets heinous.

Also, it makes for an interesting two word sentance.

Like yourself, I'm just brainstorming here, not overly attached to any one concept.

So, uh-- I'll shut up now.


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j.hall

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2005, 10:03:48 pm »

flood is on to something about the drums

i think more people participated because i handed out drum tracks.

what we could do this time is i couldgive every one a verse beat, chorus and third maybe fourth beat.  lift the restictions of editing and sound replacing.  just get some beats to people so you can start building.

that way you don't have to find a drummer......i'll be every one's drummer......OH BOY.

the murder mystery thing is not bad.

i think a better way to put is, right a song about a person....almost like a musical character description.  that would be fairly difficult.

i think you can hone that idea a bit and get something a little more workable out of it.....keep brainstorming.
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Rivers

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Re: Time for another song/mix contest?
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2005, 11:44:14 pm »

I definitely like having the drum or some kind of rhythm tracks.
I've never played around much with mondo drum editing or stiching a drum track together but that would be a good chance to learn.

I also think the alternate tuning idea could be cool.

Tracking everything with same Mic and one Pre sounds interesting as well.
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Smell the Magic
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