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Author Topic: Crappy Drums  (Read 9217 times)

GoobAudio

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2005, 10:22:45 am »

One way would be to have a descent drum kit in the studio set up for the dude to try out. Maybe get him to try it before he carries his kit into your studio and burns a half hour of studio time setting it up.

Never tell the guy his kit sux unless you have a better one to offer him at that moment.

Phil
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kraster

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2005, 11:14:21 am »

It's, to paraphrase Mr. Albini, a case of horses for courses. Sometimes the crappy beat-up kit is integral to the sound of the band. I can't see Mo Tucker getting her sound on a modern high-end kit. A lot of the sound on modern records is homogenised because of one person's belief in what sounds "right". There should be a genuine effort to maintain the uniqueness of the band sound even if it contravenes your ideal.




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lucey

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2005, 11:24:52 am »



it's only "crappy" if the band says so ... who speaks for their sound?   it's cool to have a vision for them but what's their vision?


as has been said, if the drums are sounding like bar stools and you record them 'right', as in right for the band, it's unique.  unique sounds and strong performances are magic.
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Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

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xonlocust

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2005, 01:21:32 pm »

lately i've been really appreciateing crappy sounding kits.  i've been a drummer for about 20 yrs now and have a sort of nice kit,  and also a sort of crappy kit.  

i was recently at a show of a detroit garage band and at line check it was the worst sounding kit ever. laughably bad on its own.  a group of my friends were talking about how terrible it was, and it truly sounded awful while checking.  in the mix - it was perfect for the band - it stuck out and was the mole on cindy crawford's face.  a month or so later, my favorite part of that band was the terrible sounding kit.

to me, it's just like the decision to use a closed hole front resonant bass drum head, or ported. or hydraulic heads or coated ambassadors.  or a les paul or a strat.  those choices are all valid and should be made.  hopefully the band you're working with is making a conscious choice about using that crappy kit.  if that conversation hasn't taken place, i'd hope it could take place in preproduction, it seems as if tracking isn't the right time to have that conversation.  

when i record bands it's difficult for me during basic tracking to deterimine whether thier kit is good sounding or not, usually when it's all said and done, i like the particulars of that person's kit and their playing - and have to realize it's not MY kit, or ME playing or MY record either.  i've made all of those decisions in my band.  i'm usually pleasantly suprised that the band knew more than me going into it. once we hit vocals there's an "ahhhh, now i see what you were going for" moment.  

also, each of my kits respond completely different from each other, and the kits tell me how to play.  if i've written a song on one kit, and am thrown into another kit all of a sudden the part just doesn't make sense anymore.  maybe that's good or bad.

elaborate "that's my sound, man" answer i guess.

jetbase

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2005, 09:29:15 pm »

i haven't come across experienced drummers with a crappy kit, but i have come across a lot of inexperienced ones with crappy kits. once they've set up i usually ask them to play so i can hear how the kit sounds & then move on to tuning the kit, fixing rattles, etc. i approach it like it is naturally part of the process (in other words i take control) but always asking the drummer, & sometimes other members of the band, if they're happy with whatever we're doing. essentially, i'm just talking about fixing the problems on a crappy kit. whatever it's character is, that's what it is & the sound is ulimately determined by the drummer's playing.

with experienced drummers their kit (& sound) is usually sorted out by the time they get to my studio, & i ask permission if i feel i need to do anything to it.

i guess if i was producing i would have more say in what kit was being used (if the resources were there to have a choice) & try to get the best sounding one available, but i really think it comes down to how it's played.

in response to the original post, i think the answer is always psychology. present the idea of swapping kits like it's something they want to do, even their idea.

cheers,
glenn
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sleep is not an option

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Dave Martin

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2005, 11:04:58 pm »

jimmyjazz wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 20:12

I'm certainly no drummer, but I've started to wonder if the nastiness I hear in certain drum tracks isn't anything other than the tendency for modern drummers to beat the living daylights out of their drum kits.  I mean, someone mentioned Levon Helm, and when I think of The Band, the LAST thing I think of is SWAACKKKKKKKKKKKKK.  I think of taste, of tone, of dynamics.  All over.

Just thinkin' out loud . . .


To support this theory, I had Ed Greene in my room last week (If you don't know Ed's work, do an Allmusic search). Ed hits the drums solidly, but doesn't beat the hell out of them. And it grooved like crazy.
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lucey

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2005, 01:30:07 am »

jetbase wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 21:29

i haven't come across experienced drummers with a crappy kit,


It's great how Jack White wants to keep Meg from getting "better".  Sometimes that's the ticket.  
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Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

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peyemp

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2005, 02:25:11 am »

the physical condition of the kit is generally not the problem... usually it is a drummer who hits inconsistently,, too loud and too soft on certain hits during transitions, etc..

I'm all about dynamics when they work and are intentional.  but when a drummer tries to 'out play himself', you generally end up with problems.
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Dave Martin

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2005, 12:39:23 pm »

GoobAudio wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 09:22

One way would be to have a descent drum kit in the studio set up for the dude to try out. Maybe get him to try it before he carries his kit into your studio and burns a half hour of studio time setting it up.

Phil


Does your recording schedule allow for the extra half hour to han hour that would be burned by this? That's assuming that you don't have room to set up both kits simultaneously...
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rankus

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2005, 02:14:19 pm »



Crappy drumkit = .... hmmmm

It's all fun and games until one of your engineering buddies says "ummm dude about that drum sound"  Embarassed    Surprised
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electrical

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2005, 02:45:01 pm »

rankus wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 14:14


It's all fun and games until one of your engineering buddies says "ummm dude about that drum sound"

To which I respond, "Who the fuck asked you, crankbite?" or "Would you like some more cocoa?" or something similar.
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steve albini
Electrical Audio
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rnicklaus

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2005, 02:57:50 pm »

rankus wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 11:14


It's all fun and games until one of your engineering buddies says "ummm dude about that drum sound"  Embarassed    Surprised


Other engineers don't hire you.  
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R.N.

carlsaff

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2005, 03:24:02 pm »

I don't track much anymore, but when I was doing a lot of tracking (in the 90s), piccolo snares were far, far too popular.

I'd take a crappy kit with a deep-shell snare any day over a shiny new kit with a piccolo snare. Ugh... I never once enjoyed the experience of trying to make a piccolo sound good. But, I also never talked any drummer out of using one, for all the reasons already mentioned.

OK... that was almost off-topic. Carry on.

RKrizman

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2005, 09:54:49 pm »

electrical wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 14:45

rankus wrote on Wed, 14 December 2005 14:14


It's all fun and games until one of your engineering buddies says "ummm dude about that drum sound"

To which I respond, "Who the fuck asked you, crankbite?" or "Would you like some more cocoa?" or something similar.


I swear, "drum sound" is the tail wagging the dog in this industry.  

I've recorded guys playing their trap cases for a basic track, and it's been fine.

-R
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TotalSonic

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Re: Crappy Drums
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2005, 04:40:18 am »

If someone brings in a set I deem crappy I immediately stomp around imperiously and force them to play THIS:
http://home.earthlink.net/~northdrums/dex1.jpg

or THIS!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~northdrums/RandalNorthDrums.jpg

or better yet
THIS!!!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~northdrums/FlamingNorthDrums.jpg
LONG LIVE THE NORTH DRUM!!-
now....
YOU SHALL BEND TO MY WILL AND SPEND YOUR HOURS ATTEMPTING TO PLAY BILLY COBHAM MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA LICKS WHILE WEARING LEOPARD PRINT HEADBANDS!!!

ummm... wait ... where am I .,..
oh ... sorry - I haven't actually tracked a drum kit in years.
I got nice tips for micing a string quartet though

Sorry

&
Nevermind...

Best regards,
Steve Berson
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