R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a  (Read 2787 times)

abounding

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« on: December 20, 2009, 08:27:44 pm »

Dear Friends,

Does anyone have real world experience to know if there is an audible difference
between the A and B series (using omni capsules)?

Let's assume we were recording a transparent source, like a string quartet.

Thanks,

Rich
Logged

Barry Hufker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8228
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 03:18:13 pm »

As far as I know the only difference is the way the capsules/bodies are threaded.  If you don't have this resource already...

http://www.mikrofonbau.de/m221_e.htm

Barry
Logged

studiochap

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 03:57:46 pm »

Thanks Barry - Rich had been aware of that page, but someone ( a mic tech in Europe...)  has told him the M221a's circuitry and sonics are inferior to those of the M221b....

My own schematics are all for M221b  ( I owned an M221a for a while but had no schematics for it...) so I can't help in that dept, and  I've  never  had the opportunity  myself to directly compare them sonically,

Cheers,

Gwyn
Logged
Gwyn Mathias
Odessa Wharf Studios ( now down the tubes after 14yrs...RIP )
Pro Audio Survivor...Smile

"What,Me Worry?" Alfred E. Neumann (...or was it Newmann?Smile

Electrical Theory by Joseph Lucas (inventor of the Self-Dimming Headlamp):
"Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working"

Barry Hufker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8228
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 04:43:02 pm »

Thanks Gwyn.

I guess my final thought would be "even if they are sonically identical, the thread is wrong for all the modern capsules and the adapter one can purchase for the 221B will not work with the "a", so why even mess with it".

Barry
Logged

studiochap

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 05:40:34 pm »

Hi Barry, well, my own 221a really floated my boat - I only sold it as I lent it to a studio and subsequently received an offer from them for it that I just couldn't refuse. It was a mic that worked for me  - I believed in it and trusted it and it would consistently "come up with the goods" recording acoustic sources.

Rich has found one from a long-established  and reputable German dealer at a good price. A check whilst the mic is still in Germany  has established that Murphy's Law of Vintage Mics has kicked in,  and there is an issue. Maybe the price can be adjusted to reflect this and the difference pay for the repair. However Rich has now been advised that the 221a has different circuitry to, and and is inferior to, the 221b  ( and he's also been advised by the same person to use modern Schoeps mics in preference to the tube ones.... which is where the alarm bells start ringing for me personally). My own knowledge extends only to the thread difference between the two mics as I've heard of no other differences.... hence I've advised Rich to post on the forum.

If as an M221a tube omni mic it sounds great, and it's affordable, personally I think the whole point becomes that it's then another mic in the arsenal, which has its job. I have two different capsules for my 221b - yet only my favourite ( M934b) is ever on the mic..Smile

Cheers,

Gwyn
Logged
Gwyn Mathias
Odessa Wharf Studios ( now down the tubes after 14yrs...RIP )
Pro Audio Survivor...Smile

"What,Me Worry?" Alfred E. Neumann (...or was it Newmann?Smile

Electrical Theory by Joseph Lucas (inventor of the Self-Dimming Headlamp):
"Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working"

Barry Hufker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8228
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 09:23:05 pm »

I've not had any 221A experience, but I do love my 221B (with 934b capsules).  They have bested many mics, especially for brass recording.  As you say, a good mic is a good mic.  And while there is much to be said for the solid state Schoeps I own, there is something wonderful about the 221B.

Barry
Logged

David Satz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 661
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 07:54:18 pm »

The Schoeps M 221 series was produced over a span of about about 15 years and encompassed some eight or nine different capsule types, depending on how you count them. Those capsules were hand-assembled (as capsules still are at Schoeps), and over the years small changes in production occurred for any number of reasons--some sonically motivated, some not. On top of that, the capsules of the series are now in the age range of 40 - 55 years old, so differences in condition can throw a large randomizing factor into any attempt at comparison.

Thus I really doubt whether any valid conclusions can be drawn today about the sound of the "A" vs. "B" series microphones in general. We have the microphones that we have, and they sound however they sound. At the very least one ought to compare microphones with equivalent capsule types rather than speaking of entire series in general, no?

And by the way, there were at least three other varieties of M 221 that were neither the "A" nor the "B" type: the type that was made before the "A" was applied, a type made for Telefunken which has some aspects of both, and a type also made for Telefunken which had a completely different ELA model number but was still a kind of M 221. The "Schoeps Classics" Web site doesn't say everything that Mr. Vollmer knows ...

--best regards
Logged

Barry Hufker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8228
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 10:04:15 pm »

"The "Schoeps Classics" Web site doesn't say everything that Mr. Vollmer knows ..."

Well shame on him then.

Barry
Logged

studiochap

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Re: Schoeps M221b vs. the M221a
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 12:23:31 am »

What it does say of course is:

Quote:

With identical dimensions and specifications the M 221 was also fabricated for the German manufacturer Telefunken as M155/1 (omni), M155/2 (omni) and M155/3 (cardioid).


In actual fact Rich's mic is badged as an Ela.M 155 ( and has an omni capsule). I think Rich  wouldn't mind me saying that taking Mr Vollmer's  "identical dimensions and specifications"  at 100% face value, it was easier to ask the question phrased as it was...the mic in question has thread gender matching the M221a.

David Satz wrote on Thu, 24 December 2009 00:54

...I really doubt whether any valid conclusions can be drawn today about the sound of the "A" vs. "B" series microphones in general. We have the microphones that we have, and they sound however they sound.


I totally concur.

Best regards - and Happy Holidays to all forum members.

Gwyn
Logged
Gwyn Mathias
Odessa Wharf Studios ( now down the tubes after 14yrs...RIP )
Pro Audio Survivor...Smile

"What,Me Worry?" Alfred E. Neumann (...or was it Newmann?Smile

Electrical Theory by Joseph Lucas (inventor of the Self-Dimming Headlamp):
"Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working"

Pages: [1]   Go Up