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[iCombs]

Klaus (or anyone else who can help me here),

I've been wondering about this topic for months now and have yet to get an answer from anyone so I'll toss it your way:

How does termination (edge vs. center) affect the sound of Large Diaphragm Condensers?  I can't imagine that having that electrode in the center of the diaphragm of, say an M7 has no effect on its performance.

Can the difference in termination be a large factor in the difference between AKG and Neumann designs?

Thanks much.

Ian Combs
Lightspeed Group, Inc.

[ToddP]

Ian,

You may find this article by David Bock illuminating:

http://www.soundeluxmics.com/pdf/condenser_mics.pdf

It covers the differences between K47, K67, and CK12 styles.

Best,

[Klaus Heyne]

...and after also reading Stephen Paul's article in Mix Magazine from the late 1980s:

  http://mixguides.com/microphones/vintage_products/audio_vint age_microphones_part_3/

you may still not be closer to an answer.

The reason: center or edge termination, whether in models from Neumann (K67 vs. K89) or AKG (all edge terminated) is never the only variable, so the considerable differences in sound between large capsules can never be successfully isolated to one design feature.

If, for example, you were to center terminate a CK12 capsule, assuming you'd get closer to a K67 sound that way, you still have to consider at least half a dozen design differences between the two models- anything from the backplate configuration and thickness to the presence or absence of a resonator, etc.-

In sum, there are no clear-cut advantages or fundamental sound characteristics when center or rim terminating a diaphragm, despite the theoretical change in capsule resonance.

[iCombs]

that's fair and that's the answer I was looking for.  How does center termination affect capsule resonance?

[Klaus Heyne]

From Stephen Paul's article:

Quote:

One of the other main differences displayed by the AKG mics that set them apart from the Neumann stuff is that Neumann put a screw in the center of their large-diaphragm capsules, and the membrane vibrates in the form of a ring. The free air resonance of the diaphragm is also set quite a bit lower than AKG's, all of these considerations create a vastly different sound character.

[howlback]

There is at least one AKG microphone which is neither traditionally edge or center-terminated.

Please see:
Audio Engineering Society Convention Preprints (www.aes.org)

"Modal Improved Condenser Microphone"
Techniques are shown which make it possible to alter the frequency response and therefore the sound of a condenser microphone by using the nature of diaphragm modal shapes. The modal behaviour can further be influenced by stretching the diaphragm at certain points, which leads to increased sensitivity. By applying these low cost methods, it is possible to modify specific frequency responses and to improve the signal-to-noise ratio in an easy way.

Preprint Number:   5466    Convention:   111 (November 2001)
Author:   Barnert, Richard

[Klaus Heyne]

I have never been able to get past the impressive sounding fairy dust on that one.

Maybe this is because I listened to Barnert's talk at that AES convention and left it in a frustrated mood.

He used what I thought was a hyper-technical style of presentation, where even simple concepts were represented as if they were quantum physics. This I find quite frequently in these company presentations. Almost seems deliberate, just so that the concept and presenter will come of as knowlegeable beyond reach, never mind the ppor souls who make time away from the AES floor to learn something new...

The proof of all that mumbo jumbo in this AES paper is in the pudding. And I am not sure in which pudding the technology has been successfully applied in so far.

[howlback]

Hey Klaus,

I hear what you are saying about mumbo-jumbo and AES papers.  

I think this technology was used in either the C2000 or C3000 (my memory is failing me today).

Bascially, he is using center termination, but not equidistant spacing between the diaphragm and back-plate right (?).

-k. walker

[Marik]

In theory center-terminated diaphragm has less radial and tangential modes than edge-terminated and its response (supposedly) is less erratic.
I have no idea however, how much it affects the sound in real life.

Best, Mark Fuksman