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R/E/P => R/E/P Archives => The Acid Test => Topic started by: maarvold on October 26, 2009, 08:22:13 pm

Title: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: maarvold on October 26, 2009, 08:22:13 pm
I love my SE Reflexion Filter:

http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

Essentially, this curved device provides partial physical isolation to block unwanted sounds from entering a microphone.  I have a mix room in my home and, periodically, I have to do a vocal fix in my guest bedroom.  The Reflexion Filter keeps much of the sound of my acoustically incorrect room from reaching the microphone--especially when I hang a packing blanket a couple of feet from the back wall, behind the singer.  The other day I had the singer 12" from the mic and it sounded fabulous, no intrusive 'this room is kind of suckey' presence in the recorded signal at all.  It worked so successfully that I didn't notice any signature of the [untreated, rectangular] room the vocal was recorded in when I listened back.  There were also no weird effects from using it; it was like the mic was in an 'extremely enhanced cardioid' pattern--hearing only the singer.  

I haven't yet tried it, but I'd guess that one could effectively simulate the effect of largely surrounding an instrument with gobos with this thing as well.  I keep coming up with new ideas of how to use it that will eventually get tried.  Suffice to say that I find it very useful and beneficial in less-than-perfect sonic environments.  The only thing to bear in mind is that it is a little unwieldy, so allow a few extra minutes to get it set up.  But the construction seems designed for rugged use and years of service.  And I had no reservations about mounting several expensive tube microphones on it, although I was careful to make sure everything was well tightened down before I did.  Street price is around $275.  
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: mdbeh on October 26, 2009, 08:45:28 pm
Nice review!  I've been curious about the Reflection Filter for a while, and it's great to get an informed opinion.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Berolzheimer on October 27, 2009, 12:40:17 am
mdbeh wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 17:45

Nice review!  I've been curious about the Reflection Filter for a while, and it's great to get an informed opinion.


Me too.  Thanks, Michael.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: J.J. Blair on November 06, 2009, 08:39:39 pm
Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: maarvold on November 08, 2009, 12:16:56 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 17:39

Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  


More effective than several packing blankets.  And I've only ever used them with cardioid mics.  If you look at the website, the rejection is quite broadband in nature--probably not the case with packing blankets.  I'm actually considering buying another one.  

You do need a beefy mic stand to, for example, hold the Reflexion Filter and a U47.  But, the way I'd use packing blankets, I'd need at least 3 extra boom stands to get close to what the Reflexion Filter delivers (I set them up as a "T", then drape blankets over them).  I also wish they made a shorter post so that long mics would sit more 'in the middle of the middle', but even with the capsule a couple of inches from the end of the screen, it was very effective.  
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: , on November 08, 2009, 05:22:25 pm
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 17:39

Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  



JJ, have you tried this device or are you just assuming that it wouldn't work based on the size of it?  

I have my room treated Ethan Winer style, including an absorptive cloud hanging from the ceiling, and when I record acoustic guitar it still sounds like I'm playing through a flanger.  I've wondered whether this device would help.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rick-slo on November 08, 2009, 10:55:38 pm
Robert Shelton wrote on Sun, 08 November 2009 16:22

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 17:39

Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  



JJ, have you tried this device or are you just assuming that it wouldn't work based on the size of it?  

I have my room treated Ethan Winer style, including an absorptive cloud hanging from the ceiling, and when I record acoustic guitar it still sounds like I'm playing through a flanger.  I've wondered whether this device would help.


A couple of years ago I tried out a pair of them for recording acoustic guitar. It definitely quiets the room. I sent them back because I felt they imparted some coloration I did not like and because it was just too inconvenient moving the now quite heavy and cumbersome mike stands around to position for the best stereo sound.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: maarvold on November 09, 2009, 02:25:10 pm
rick-slo wrote on Sun, 08 November 2009 19:55

...I sent them back because I felt they imparted some coloration I did not like and because it was just too inconvenient moving the now quite heavy and cumbersome mike stands around to position for the best stereo sound.


I agree that the setup is somewhat cumbersome, but then, so is creating a proper acoustic for recording where none currently exists.  But the vocal stuff I recorded using the Reflexion Filter--in conjunction with a Klaus Heyne-modded U67 and EAR microphone amplifier (as Tim de Paravicini calls it)--well, let's just say that I am pretty picky and I can't imagining wanting anything better-sounding in a female vocal.  So I would not echo the statement, at least in my circumstance, that using the Reflexion Filter "imparted some coloration I did not like"; on the contrary, I was amazed at how the sound of my untreated spare bedroom did not intrude into the recording--especially given that the singer was 10-12 inches from the mic.    For the record, I reached my conclusions while doing an evaluation (using he Reflexion Filter) with 4 or 5 different expensive tube microphones and 4 different high-quality preamps and didn't hear any unexpected color from any combination.  The monitoring environment where I reached these conclusions has had an extreme amount of attention to acoustical treatment, monitoring, etc.  And the 67/EAR won the evaluation for that particular singer.  
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rick-slo on November 09, 2009, 05:18:59 pm
maarvold wrote on Mon, 09 November 2009 13:25

rick-slo wrote on Sun, 08 November 2009 19:55

...I sent them back because I felt they imparted some coloration I did not like and because it was just too inconvenient moving the now quite heavy and cumbersome mike stands around to position for the best stereo sound.


I agree that the setup is somewhat cumbersome, but then, so is creating a proper acoustic for recording where none currently exists.  But the vocal stuff I recorded using the Reflexion Filter--in conjunction with a Klaus Heyne-modded U67 and EAR microphone amplifier (as Tim de Paravicini calls it)--well, let's just say that I am pretty picky and I can't imagining wanting anything better-sounding in a female vocal.  So I would not echo the statement, at least in my circumstance, that using the Reflexion Filter "imparted some coloration I did not like"; on the contrary, I was amazed at how the sound of my untreated spare bedroom did not intrude into the recording--especially given that the singer was 10-12 inches from the mic.    For the record, I reached my conclusions while doing an evaluation (using he Reflexion Filter) with 4 or 5 different expensive tube microphones and 4 different high-quality preamps and didn't hear any unexpected color from any combination.  The monitoring environment where I reached these conclusions has had an extreme amount of attention to acoustical treatment, monitoring, etc.  And the 67/EAR won the evaluation for that particular singer.  

Probably does work well with voices. Also there is much less bother seting up the mike position for recording a voice versus a setting up a pair of mikes for recording a guitar.On the guitar at the time I was using a Great River MP-2H and a pair of Microtech Gefell M300s. I have since treated the room as a whole with acoustic panels. As with much of this stuff it depends on what you are trying to record and even there YMMV.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: McAllister on November 09, 2009, 09:09:18 pm
I have used one a number of times in a friend's studio for lead & backing vocals.

It does an excellent job of negating the room.

I suppose you could get the same results with well placed blankets or baffles, which is what I do in my own room. But it works well.

M
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: billiard on November 10, 2009, 08:10:29 am


From the perspective of justifying the expense, for the price of one Reflexion Filter, you could buy approximately twenty blankets, or you could build several large broadband absorbers (or gobos).

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Fibes on November 10, 2009, 09:14:12 am
billiard wrote on Tue, 10 November 2009 08:10



From the perspective of justifying the expense, for the price of one Reflexion Filter, you could buy approximately twenty blankets, or you could build several large broadband absorbers (or gobos).





The few people I know who swear by them use them at locations other than the studio. Carrying all that stuff is a lot harder than one of those and I've heard it in action and was convinced it wasn't snake oil. If I had the need I might pick one up.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: J.J. Blair on November 10, 2009, 12:20:54 pm
Nobody has ever lent me one.  I was simply making an observation, based on seeing them.  SE is welcome to send me one for eval, though!
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: billiard on November 10, 2009, 12:33:53 pm


Certainly if portability is an important factor, they might be hard to beat.  And having never used one, I can't speak about their functionality.  But speaking as a studio owner, for the same money, I would rather treat the room(s) for use with any and all mics than treat just one mic.



Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: maarvold on November 11, 2009, 02:08:35 pm
I spoke to my [very picky, audio-wise] friend Carlos yesterday.  I asked him if he had ever used the Reflexion Filter and he said he tried it, but returned it because it was too 'colored' when he used it on one of his small diaphragm omni condenser mics.  I asked him, "Colored--in what way?"  
"Boxy-sounding," was his reply.  
I told him that was funny, because the vocal samples I sent him to check out were done with it and I didn't hear even a trace of "boxy"... he agreed and wants to try it again.  He thought about it for a moment, then remembered that he had bought the smaller, less expensive version.  
Also, I found this in the extensive thread on gearslutz:

"The optimum mic position relative to the filter is to get the capsule lined up with the centre of the filter and to have the mic sitting just within the curve of the filter, leaving plenty of space between it and the filter wall. If you place the mic further into the filter, the sound dries up more, but may change slightly in tonality"

Now that I spent around an hour reading all 8 pages of the gearslutz thread I would say the consensus is:

1. Most people who bought it like it, some like it a lot and use adjectives like "Focus" and "Clarity" when describing their results.  Several said it removes negative room ambience in their environment.  
2. A few people thought it was colored-sounding. "Nasal" and "Boxy" were the adjectives used.  One guy hated it and sold it immediately.  
3. Generally it was suggested that it wouldn't be beneficial to use if your room was already well-treated.  However, one guy with a well-treated room still preferred using it to not using it.  
4. It was suggested that the best sound would be obtained by keeping the mic not too deep in the shell, and that putting it deep in the shell would color the sound.  
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rick-slo on November 11, 2009, 06:37:07 pm
I had a couple of the larger ones (not the instrumental RFs). Using pencil type mikes the mike capsules were about even or a bit beyond the outer edges of the filter (could not get them further in even if I wanted to). It is a nicely made product and may serve some applications well and help solve some problems such as may occur with mobile recording for example.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: , on November 12, 2009, 12:32:55 pm
Hmmm.  My room's ALREADY boxy.  According to the SE site this thing also diffuses, so I was hoping it would help.  Maybe I'll pick one up sometime (from someplace with a good return policy) and give it a try.  Thanks for everyone's input.

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Glenn Bucci on November 14, 2009, 12:09:47 pm
I have the reflection filter and have enjoyed it's benefits as well. I learned about it's usefulness on the Sound on Sound magazine rescue articles they have every month. If you don't have a vocal booth and don't want something to big that will take up a lot of room the SE RF does a good job. The important thing is not to put the mic deep into the filter as this causes some combing issues. Many others have come out with similar products, but many are too big as they block the singer from being able to see other band members so they can't work off each other.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: PaulyD on November 14, 2009, 12:41:34 pm
An alternative to the SE Reflexion filter you may want to consider is the RealTraps Portable Vocal Booth: http://www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

I've never tried one, but it sure looks like it would get the job done.

Paul
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: maarvold on November 19, 2009, 08:32:14 pm
Yesterday, in addition to other things on my agenda, I had the opportunity to do a bit of additional testing in a controlled environment with the Reflexion Filter.  Using it changes the sound a little bit.  To give some sense of scale about the changes, JJ Blair did a set of recordings with several different designs of pop screens (and one without a pop screen); I decided based on what I heard from those recordings that I would never use a pop screen again unless I was absolutely forced to.  Within that context, I would prefer not to use the Reflexion Filter if I didn't have to, but if I was hearing too much of a room that I didn't like, I would accept the changes to the sound and use the Filter; this is not how I currently feel about pop filters, which I would try nearly anything to avoid (at least until I abandon that idea as an unworkable option).  

The Reflexion Filter seems to color more if you are close in (6 inches) than it does if you are further away (16 inches).  I feel like my speaking voice (baritone) has a tendency to 'load up' the filter a bit as I get closer.  And there is a 'freedom' to the sound without it, although I don't feel that it sounds small or closed in when using it, just a little bit different in the low mids and bottom.  I also tend to think that singers would benefit from having broadband absorption 2-4 feet behind them when using it (the wall behind me was mostly live in my test yesterday).  

If you are interested, you can download my [speaking] files at this link and decide for yourself:

http://files.me.com/michaelaarvold/9rdvl2

Signal chain: Pearlman 250 (Tim Campbell CT12 capsule), EAR Mic Amp, Meitner Convertor, mic was placed just outside the plane of the front of the Filter.  And I'm yelling a bit because singers would sing louder than than speech.  
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Barry Hufker on November 20, 2009, 04:49:52 pm
This may sound stupid, but may I suggest putting the microphone on the "wrong" side of the filter?  It's my thought the filter might still direct room reflections away from the mic while any bounce of the reflector from the performer would be angled away from the mic.

Barry

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Mike P on November 20, 2009, 08:54:12 pm
PaulyD wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 09:41

An alternative to the SE Reflexion filter you may want to consider is the RealTraps Portable Vocal Booth: http://www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

I've never tried one, but it sure looks like it would get the job done.

Paul


I bought a PVB a few weeks ago and briefly tracked vocals with it.

They were without a doubt, the best sounding vocals I've ever recorded.

NO room.  No reflections.  Nothing except the sound of the singer's voice.

I'm extremely impressed.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on November 23, 2009, 03:30:30 pm


I bought some 1 1/2" PVC pipe and fittings from home depot and built a frame that breaks down for storage... Hang some packing blankets on it and voila! Portable Vocal booth that sounds amazing at a fraction of the cost of any of the above  Rolling Eyes  

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: plughead on November 24, 2009, 09:12:41 am
Interesting to read an evaluation of this unit - I'm thinking of getting one or more for this, and possible gobo usage.

thx!!!

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: GerhardS on January 14, 2010, 04:30:42 pm
Funny World of Reflection Filter:

Some thougts from Grammy Winner Eberhard Sengpiel:

• GRAMMY 2002 for "Best Instrumental Soloist Recording"
• GRAMMY 2003 for "Best Opera Recording

 http://www.sengpielaudio.com/LiveEndDeadEndUndDasReflexionFi lter.pdf

It's in German but I translate some keywords:
Schallquelle=Source of Sound
Empfaenger=Receiver
Wiedergabe=Playback
Aufnahme=Recording

Die erzeugten fr
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: J.J. Blair on January 14, 2010, 05:43:51 pm
So, does this mean he didn't like it?  I'm confused.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: route-electrique on January 15, 2010, 12:28:34 am
Using pair of basstraps, aligned to desired angle will give you much better results than SERF.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: GerhardS on January 16, 2010, 06:50:38 am
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 17:43

So, does this mean he didn't like it?  I'm confused.


You got it  Smile  Smile  Smile

You better invest that money into the acoustic treatment of your room.

If you still believe that you need someting like this filter: a pillow would do absolutely the same job. You would not hear a difference
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: compasspnt on January 16, 2010, 09:02:32 am
So I have been wasting my time sleeping on the SE Reflexion Filter?
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Hank Alrich on January 16, 2010, 11:48:29 am
Do you awaken with comb filtered hair?
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: fiasco ( P.M.DuMont ) on January 16, 2010, 02:29:03 pm
rankus wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 15:30



I bought some 1 1/2" PVC pipe and fittings from home depot and built a frame that breaks down for storage... Hang some packing blankets on it and voila! Portable Vocal booth that sounds amazing at a fraction of the cost of any of the above  Rolling Eyes  




Word.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: antoniosolo on January 16, 2010, 07:36:15 pm
I had to get rid of mine, I heard its effects every time.  
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Berolzheimer on January 17, 2010, 06:06:29 pm
Hank Alrich wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 08:48

Do you awaken with comb filtered hair?


Nice.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: C.Cash on January 22, 2010, 08:33:17 am
Sweetwater has completely sold out of the big one!


I wonder if this thread has anything to do with that?
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: thinman on January 23, 2010, 09:44:44 pm
rankus wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 14:30



I bought some 1 1/2" PVC pipe and fittings from home depot and built a frame that breaks down for storage... Hang some packing blankets on it and voila! Portable Vocal booth that sounds amazing at a fraction of the cost of any of the above  Rolling Eyes  




Any chance you could put up a picture of it?  I'd like to see it.
.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on January 23, 2010, 11:17:47 pm
thinman wrote on Sat, 23 January 2010 18:44

rankus wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 14:30



I bought some 1 1/2" PVC pipe and fittings from home depot and built a frame that breaks down for storage... Hang some packing blankets on it and voila! Portable Vocal booth that sounds amazing at a fraction of the cost of any of the above  Rolling Eyes  




Any chance you could put up a picture of it?  I'd like to see it.
.


Sure thing!  I just snapped some iPhone pics and will post them later tonight or tomorrow morning (pst)

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on January 24, 2010, 04:04:58 pm
index.php/fa/14161/0/

Here is an overall view of one side panel.  I made two of these in mirror image to each other.



Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on January 24, 2010, 04:07:23 pm
index.php/fa/14162/0/

Close up detail of the cross beam socket... I did not glue in the cross beams so that it will break down for storage
The bungy cord is used to pull the two side panels tight to each other so the cross beams don't fall out and collapse on the client



Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on January 24, 2010, 04:13:10 pm
index.php/fa/14163/0/

The spring clamps are used to hold the packing blankets on... I originally intended to cut the blankets to size, and lace them into the frames, but have never gotten around to that.



Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on January 24, 2010, 04:15:27 pm
index.php/fa/14164/0/

Here it is set up in the overly crowded live booth!  Blankets omitted for clarity.
The blankets are hung on two sides and the back, forming a three sided booth with the singer facing out.. this controls room reflections entering the mic from behind and beside the singer. It does a VERY good job of removing room reflections from the mic.

Great when you want a tight dry sound for acoustic gtrs as well.




Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: NelsonL on January 25, 2010, 01:41:38 am
I've done something very similar, except with heavy duty boom mic stands. Of course then you can't use those stands for actual microphones.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: compasspnt on January 25, 2010, 09:13:50 am
Rick, have done a very similar thing here, but had to paint the pvc tubes...yours appear to be black originally...?  Can you get already-painted pvc?
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: Hank Alrich on January 25, 2010, 12:02:29 pm
Maybe the pipes are ABS?
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on January 25, 2010, 02:02:23 pm
compasspnt wrote on Mon, 25 January 2010 06:13

Rick, have done a very similar thing here, but had to paint the pvc tubes...yours appear to be black originally...?  Can you get already-painted pvc?




Oh shoot!  Yes, they are ABS plastic (drain/sewer pipe) rather than PVC.  My bad!  It comes in black as a stock color.

I know it's not an original idea... I'm glad to see others have designed the same type of setup.  Necessity being the mother of invention and all (or was that Frank Zappa) Very Happy  

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: bobybayo on January 25, 2010, 06:29:06 pm
PaulyD wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 13:41

An alternative to the SE Reflexion filter you may want to consider is the RealTraps Portable Vocal Booth: http://www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

I've never tried one, but it sure looks like it would get the job done.

Paul



I am very happy with my PVB from Real Traps.  Last month I tracked some vocals on a church (long reverb) and they came out great with minimal impact from church acoustics.  Also, the PVB is larger.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: NelsonL on January 26, 2010, 01:13:28 am
rankus wrote on Mon, 25 January 2010 11:02

compasspnt wrote on Mon, 25 January 2010 06:13

Rick, have done a very similar thing here, but had to paint the pvc tubes...yours appear to be black originally...?  Can you get already-painted pvc?




Oh shoot!  Yes, they are ABS plastic (drain/sewer pipe) rather than PVC.  My bad!  It comes in black as a stock color.

I know it's not an original idea... I'm glad to see others have designed the same type of setup.  Necessity being the mother of invention and all (or was that Frank Zappa) Very Happy  




Didn't mean to detract from your originality-- just wanted to chime in with a "me too."

I mean, after all, you're the studio owner with the coin op beer machine, that's genius!

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: thinman on February 13, 2010, 02:00:24 pm
rankus wrote on Sat, 23 January 2010 22:17

thinman wrote on Sat, 23 January 2010 18:44


Any chance you could put up a picture of it?  I'd like to see it.
.


Sure thing!  I just snapped some iPhone pics and will post them later tonight or tomorrow morning (pst)




Rick, I just made my way back to this thread. Thank you for taking the time to take and post the pictures.

Now, all I need to know is how a plaid blanket would affect the sound versus a solid color or perhaps a leopard patterned blanket; or better yet a snow leopard blanket. Of course the snow leopard blanket may not be backwards compatible with the black ABS pipes. Terry, maybe you shouldn't have been so hasty to paint your PVC pipes black.

Seriously though, thanks. I've been thinking of getting Ethan's rig but this would be less costly and the frame could break down and live in my garage when not in use. Interesting that the singer faces outward from your rig but into the Real Traps Vocal Booth.
.
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: mattrussell on February 22, 2010, 03:29:10 pm
i have one and think it's sounds just OK.  have tried it in a variety of spaces, with different mics and voices.  

it def helps "quiet the room", but i've also noticed some filtering that isn't always pleasant.  as others have said, it's cumbersome to carry, transport and use, but it does beats many alternatives that are "macgyver-esque".

i'd give it a 7 out of 10.  


Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: thinman on February 23, 2010, 01:19:00 am
thinman wrote on Sat, 13 February 2010 13:00

rankus wrote on Sat, 23 January 2010 22:17

thinman wrote on Sat, 23 January 2010 18:44


Any chance you could put up a picture of it?  I'd like to see it.
.


Sure thing!  I just snapped some iPhone pics and will post them later tonight or tomorrow morning (pst)




Rick, I just made my way back to this thread. Thank you for taking the time to take and post the pictures.

Now, all I need to know is how a plaid blanket would affect the sound versus a solid color or perhaps a leopard patterned blanket; or better yet a snow leopard blanket. Of course the snow leopard blanket may not be backwards compatible with the black ABS pipes. Terry, maybe you shouldn't have been so hasty to paint your PVC pipes black.

Seriously though, thanks. I've been thinking of getting Ethan's rig but this would be less costly and the frame could break down and live in my garage when not in use. Interesting that the singer faces 'outward' from your rig but 'into' the Real Traps Vocal Booth.
.

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: GerhardS on February 24, 2010, 03:06:36 pm
thinman wrote on Tue, 23 February 2010 01:19

 Interesting that the singer faces 'outward' from your rig but 'into' the Real Traps Vocal Booth.
.


The singer sings from  'Live End' into 'Dead End'. Why?

Has already been used back in 1924:

http://www.picbutler.de/archiv.html?bild=115995&bild_nam e=koenigswusterhausenreflectionfilter90ou9.jpg

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: rankus on March 04, 2010, 04:30:57 pm


Hi Guys,  Sorry I forgot to check back on this thread.

My thinking on "which way to point the singer" is more to do with which way to point the mic. If the mic is pointing out of the booth with the singer facing inwards then the mic is still going to catch room reflections from behind the singer... There is a lot of sound coming out the back of the singers chest as well as the front and mouth.

Anyway.  If the mic is pointing into the booth with singer facing out, he/she will be exciting the room, but the mic is less likely to pick it up due to it facing into the dead booth..

Not MY technique BTW ... this is pretty standard procedure.

Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: 3rd 4thT on May 28, 2010, 01:31:07 am
GerhardS wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 15:06

thinman wrote on Tue, 23 February 2010 01:19

 Interesting that the singer faces 'outward' from your rig but 'into' the Real Traps Vocal Booth.
.


The singer sings from  'Live End' into 'Dead End'. Why?

Has already been used back in 1924:

   http://www.picbutler.de/archiv.html?bild=115995&bild_nam e=koenigswusterhausenreflectionfilter90ou9.jpg




I don't trust this photo for placement. I think it is posed. Why is the cellist facing the camera with the mic behind him and probably too high up? And where are the other mics? They've been removed so competing companies couldn't steal their mic placement secrets.

I also think the year is wrong. If this is 1924, they would have been recording into an acoustic horn. The first commercial electrical recordings with microphones was 1925, and very few studios had them. It was five more years before everybody had switched to the new system..

So it's cute and informative, but not gospel.

Here's a photo of EMI's recording of Strauss's Capriccio in London in 1957. The sessions were recorded in stereo, but they screwed it up (EMI, remember?) and the set was released only in mono.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/2636775.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D778370150D18466B929D5248C5803219CA52222F25EC092C

Cheers,
3rd&4thT
Title: Re: SE Reflexion Filter
Post by: 3rd 4thT on May 28, 2010, 01:43:39 am
And here's a photo of Frank Sinatra recording with Count Basie.

Note the booth. All that's missing is a zoning permit for the garage.

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/74295824.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D0D1D724E58A693B7A63CD2A4A09DDA08444D5C167AC4BEB23
Cheers,
3rd&4thT