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[Brian Roth]

Brent wrote on Wed, 16 November 2005 22:52

I tracked on this Virtuosso here: http://www.nextlevelrecordingstudio.com It is big, fat, and has tons of headroom.  I wish that I had one!

As "the guy" who keeps that beast running <g>....it is quite the beast. apparently the very last desk that Mitsubishi shipped before they pulled the plug.

And, as is typical, the stoooopid power supply will keep me full of billable dollars, although Mr. Mathews and I are working on a total swap-out of the PS unit....

I will say one thing...it is probably the ONLY desk I've ever seen with the gold-contact Schadow switches used everywhere.


Bri

[RMoore]

Especially nowadays with tons of options for brand new 'vintage' gear / reissues or based on old classics there's a lot to be said for avoiding original 'old' stuff with special needs,
Its very much like buying a used classic car and especially with tape machines and desks that have lots of different moving parts, switches, pots etc the fun of a great score for the $ can diminish rapidly with all the refurbishing and repairs needed to get the things 1/2 way working - speaking as someone who has gone down that route (vintage) prior to this current era of mega vintage reissues.
Have to say the Electrodyne, Quad stuff sure seems interesting,
I enjoyed the Tape Op article,
I was also pleased to learn what kind of console a classic fave studio / production / label (Jamaica - Studio One)had that I'd seen in pics but had no clue what the wierd looking thing was - an Electrodyne! Cool..
Cheers,
RM

[Tim Halligan]

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 17 November 2005 06:25

I bought one new, a Quad Eight / Mitsubishi "Westar," in about '85-86.  I recorded many albums on it, and was always well pleased.

Terry,
What was the difference between the Westar and the Superstar?

I mean besides the fact that they sold bugger-all Superstars...
Was it Mitsu's attempt at the SSL/Neve paradigm?

compasspnt also mentioned

REM's "Green" was done on that desk, as well as Stevie Ray & Jimmy Vaughan's "Brothers" album, produced by Nile.  I did a couple of Fab T-birds, some ZZ mixes, and lots more on it.

...as well as Johnny Diesel and the Injectors.

Still a great sounding album from a band I used to see playing around Perth for years.



Cheers,
Tim

[Bob Olhsson]

R.Nicklaus wrote on Wed, 16 November 2005 20:05

Does anyone know what model Quad 8 was in The Sound Lab tracking room? That was nice...

Sure was although Armin and John Sands modified the heck out of everything! The opening of the studio was held up for months because the Studer multitrack didn't sound right. They were who first taught me about improving the "balls" aspect of common gear.

Armin told me he really liked tracking with a different console and kind of tape than what he was going to use for the mix. I think his words were "It spreads out the coloration." He was a big fan of the Warner Burbank scoring stage and its huge Quad-8 although he told me he hated the JBL monitors there and insisted they be disconnected during his sessions so he "couldn't be tempted to move any mikes."

[compasspnt]

Tim Halligan wrote on Thu, 17 November 2005 06:58

Terry, What was the difference between the Westar and the Superstar? I mean besides the fact that they sold bugger-all Superstars... Was it Mitsu's attempt at the SSL/Neve paradigm?

Well I am not familiar with the Superstar, but I  think I remember Gary Belz having one early in his studio forays.  Seems like it was much more automated, and had some extra features.  My Westar was, although 44 inputs, somewhat more compact in size, and didn't have any automation...just the way I like 'em.

compasspnt also mentioned

REM's "Green" was done on that desk, as well as Stevie Ray & Jimmy Vaughan's "Brothers" album, produced by Nile.  I did a couple of Fab T-birds, some ZZ mixes, and lots more on it.

Tim Halligan wrote on Thu, 17 November 2005 06:58

...as well as Johnny Diesel and the Injectors. Still a great sounding album from a band I used to see playing around Perth for years.

Yes, well, I did so much work on that Westar, that I couldn't mention everyone.  And, although that album was the biggest seller in Australian rock history at that time (even above Madonna, Springsteen, etc.), it was not even officially released in the US (major Chrysalis/US problem at the wrong time), so I didn't think a good portion of our readers would know it.  But yes, it certainly benefitted from the Quad 8 influence, as did the next Diesel album, and two of The Angels albums, one of which is still their biggest one, and a Jimmy Barnes remix

Thanks!

Now I do want that desk back...

[rnicklaus]

Bob Olhsson wrote on Thu, 17 November 2005 07:54

R.Nicklaus wrote on Wed, 16 November 2005 20:05 Does anyone know what model Quad 8 was in The Sound Lab tracking room? That was nice... Sure was although Armin and John Sands modified the heck out of everything! The opening of the studio was held up for months because the Studer multitrack didn't sound right. They were who first taught me about improving the "balls" aspect of common gear. Armin told me he really liked tracking with a different console and kind of tape than what he was going to use for the mix. I think his words were "It spreads out the coloration." He was a big fan of the Warner Burbank scoring stage and its huge Quad-8 although he told me he hated the JBL monitors there and insisted they be disconnected during his sessions so he "couldn't be tempted to move any mikes."

Everything about Sound Labs in the mid '70's was top notch.

It was the first time I ever experienced an outboard mic pre as the mix room console had no mic pres but a small vocal booth for any small overdubs.  

[J.J. Blair]

I wish I could remember the model number.  I checked out a very late model 16 channel Quad Eight console that a friend was trying to sell me.  Totally loaded with TL072s and the EQ sounded more like a Tascam console than anything else.  Thin, brittle and not musical.  Really not happening.  It must have been a Mitsubishi thing.  It definitely was not something John Hall would ever have done!  This must have been Quad Eight's version of the Neve 8108.

[Eric Bridenbaker]

I did get to work on a Mitsubishi Westar a few times, they used to have one at Sound Ideas, maybe still do. There was also one at the Trebas studio here in Toronto. I liked it at the time, but it was years ago, on some of my first studio sessions, and I really didn't have the ears to tell the difference then. I should see if those masters are around somewhere...

Like the Neve, different generations will undoubtedly behave differently, though a common design pedigree often has a "sound" associated with it, parts of which will carry through. Based on what I've heard so far, the earlier Electrodyne ones are tops, and the Q8/Mitsubishi units have been behind some great recordings. The Wall was apparently mixed on several linked Quad Eights as well.

Best,
Eric

[ALLEN WRENCH]

On the vintage desk topic… aren’t all the models, great records and sounds everyone’s talking about… from a time period when the Quad 8s were recently new?

Don’t caps start drying out at around 10 years?  … or when are you supposed to start ‘recappin’?

I’m not talking shit about the Quad 8, I’m sure they were ‘bad as fuck’ when they were new.  But how about 20+ years later and with ISSUES.  

And how much will it ACTUALLY cost to get it back to NEW, or even REASONABLE working condition.

I’d be interested in hearing from some techs about the average cost of getting the old stuff into usable condition.

There are a lot of low price tags on formerly high dollar consoles out there right now, possibly because of the temporary ITB PT fad, but the cost of getting one up to speed could become quite considerable.

I'm seeing some good deals every once in a while.  for around $15,000 you can get something cool, but I'm betting there's another $10,000 of BS that's hidden under the hood sometimes.

I'm just saying to be aware of this factor!

Don’t count out the ToneLux!

[Mike O]

ALLEN WRENCH wrote on Fri, 18 November 2005 01:31

On the vintage desk topic… aren’t all the models, great records and sounds everyone’s talking about… from a time period when the Quad 8s were recently new? Don’t caps start drying out at around 10 years?  … or when are you supposed to start ‘recappin’? I’m not talking shit about the Quad 8, I’m sure they were ‘bad as fuck’ when they were new.  But how about 20+ years later and with ISSUES.   And how much will it ACTUALLY cost to get it back to NEW, or even REASONABLE working condition. I’d be interested in hearing from some techs about the average cost of getting the old stuff into usable condition. There are a lot of low price tags on formerly high dollar consoles out there right now, possibly because of the temporary ITB PT fad, but the cost of getting one up to speed could become quite considerable. I'm seeing some good deals every once in a while.  for around $15,000 you can get something cool, but I'm betting there's another $10,000 of BS that's hidden under the hood sometimes. I'm just saying to be aware of this factor! Don’t count out the ToneLux!

Always good advice to be aware what an older classic might take to bring up to spec - depending on maintenance. As for the Tonelux; as near as I can tell a 24 channel Tonelux configuered as an 8 buss with eq on each channel will run about $70k. Quite a different budget.

[ALLEN WRENCH]

The thing I was really dig on the ToneLux is the ability to configure it.  

I, as well as many people here have got a good amount of outboard gear.  And I’m sure most people don’t let the brand of desk they’re working with determine which EQ, and or mic pre they’ll be using in any given situation.  So why buy a desk full of stuff you won't use  in the first place?

I’m planning in buying a Tonelux in SECTIONS.  For example, first I’m planning on buying a GROUP section…

I’ll end up with 8 faders, the control room module, the monitor and some of the effects returns.  At first I’m not even going to be buying the ToneLux PREs or Eqs.

God forbid that you’re a DAW guy, this could even be your total set up.

As time goes on I’ll pick up more channels, faders, Eqs etc.

How many engineers or producers here work with ONLY API, Neve, Manley,
SSL, etc.?  Whenever I see studio shots, I see a big ‘ol racks with a pretty wide variety and array of gear.  Almost like a painters palate.

I’m planning on using the ToneLux basically as a line mixer, and also using  all the API, Neve, and Manley PREs, and Eqs I already own.  

With the ToneLux set up you only have to buy what you need, and are more able to put gear purchases towards your favorite weapons, or integrate gear you already have.

The ToneLux Eq looks REALLY happening, but for me right now, I need to concentrate on a better signal path and make use of my Massive Passive’s and my API Lunch Boxes and other crap.

So $ 70,000 up front?  Nope, probably the set up I’ll end up going with will EVENTUALLY be around the $ 25,000 mark.  And I can probably buy each SECTION in (approx) $ 9,000 bites

So my thinking is compare ToneLux @ $ 25,000 to getting a deal on a console at $ 15,000, putting $10,000 into it… and then have it STILL be a pile of crap.

I’m not saying TO DEFINITELY buy a ToneLux, just to be aware of it as a high quality and affordable option, AND ALSO be aware of the dangers of buying something old, albeit cool, having work done to it while expecting it to be better than new, and then finding out you wasted a whole bunch of money.

I paid $ 10,000 for this lesson, but I’m passing it on to you for FREE!!!!

[thedoc]

Bob Olhsson said "Armin and John Sands modified the heck out of everything"

Yes, when I visited there, they showed me a veritable 990 factory...

[Eric Bridenbaker]

thedoc wrote on Thu, 17 November 2005 23:59

Bob Olhsson said "Armin and John Sands modified the heck out of everything" Yes, when I visited there, they showed me a veritable 990 factory...

Does this mean that they changed all the op amps to 990's? Cause the 990 design makes for a great unit, if the rest of the system can handle the volume, won't work all the time, but they're damn clean and loud, lots from the very bottom to the top, really love 'em...

The orig Q8 opamps were reportedly based on Electrodyne's, but the original Edyne schematics for the opamps were kept under wraps, or so the story goes...

Cheers,
Eric

[RMoore]

ALLEN WRENCH wrote on Fri, 18 November 2005 02:31

There are a lot of low price tags on formerly high dollar consoles out there right now, possibly because of the temporary ITB PT fad, but the cost of getting one up to speed could become quite considerable.

The biggest example of this are the MCI 500 & 600 series consoles,
Often going for dirt cheap compared to the top dollar new prices of yore,

[compasspnt]

Ryan Moore wrote on Fri, 18 November 2005 08:49

The biggest example of this are the MCI 500 & 600 series consoles, Often going for dirt cheap compared to the top dollar new prices of yore,

...but which can be much improved by 990 mic pre mods, such as Hardy, which make a direct replacement...