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Author Topic: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape  (Read 5723 times)

L. Magyar

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Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« on: October 26, 2005, 02:45:46 PM »

Hi all- This is my first post here on the forum. A recent discussion came up in a production class I am in and I wonder if I could get some opinions? The question asked:
Digital audio tape has all of the advantages except-
a.   They can be readily available for playback
b.   The tape can be used over and over again  
c.   Digital audio tape can be easily edited
d.   All of the above

The instructor (who also wrote the test), asserts that the answer is c- Assuming that the question is based on DAT tape, where does everyone stand? My argument is this- Answer a, unless we are talking time-code DAT there is no solid way to quickly pull up material from multiple areas of the tape, ala sampler or audio compact disk. Answer b, oxide shedding anyone? Yes, a DAT or SVHS or Hi8 will last through all kinds of session use, but a studio can’t recycle the same the same digital tape over and over again. Answer c, Again- maybe if the DAT is time-coded-  even then what are you going to do deck to deck editing? You could use the players digital outs to go into a computer and stay in the digital world ect- but that’s beyond the scope of the question (or the class). So wouldn't it be fair to say that the answer is d? If I’m being stupid or this is inappropriate for the forum just let me know, but any input would be appreciated!
Thanks in Advance
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Level

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 02:55:54 PM »

His question is worded as to find the disadvantage.

All the advantages "except" what DAT cannot do..

The answer is C. DATS are terrible editing machines.

It is true that DATS are reuseable...
Easily available for playback and can be used over and over.

I had two Sony 7050 SMPTE DAT's and all I used the TC for was to sync up to the Beta SP for inserting music to Beta (in 1994-96)..but to edit on a DAT tape..not happening.
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L. Magyar

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 06:00:04 PM »

Thanks Level- "C" is true, and was actually my first guess, I brought up oxide shedding and got "The Look" from the teacher- Aka shut up. But I now see how the line can be drawn between reusable and single use media. I just didn't look at it in that light. Thanks again for responding!
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vernier

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 06:56:39 PM »

Haven't heard the word "DAT" in years. It's extinct because it was unreliable.
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KungFuLio

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 07:15:27 PM »

vernier wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 23:56

Haven't heard the word "DAT" in years. It's extinct because it was unreliable.


I'm surprised it's still in the curriculum.  Other than doing transfers to other mediums (very,very rare), I'm with vernier haven't seen 'em.  Don't plan on buying one, can;t wait to get rid of mu PITA 3800.
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Tim Halligan

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 08:01:58 PM »

Slate 'em all you want...but they are still seeing daily combat action in the field for film/tv production sound - although its days are numbered - and for sound effects recording/atmoses.

Their big advantage over portable HDD decks is if there is a catastrophic machine failure with HDD, your drive is potentially toast, whereas your DAT tape will be salvageable...you might have lost your last take...but not the whole damn day's shooting.


Cheers,
Tim
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compasspnt

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 09:56:50 PM »

Rarely us them anymore, but just a few years ago they were in use every day.

However, on a recent long V/O session recording a very famous actor (into a pre-formatted Protools session template), I decided to run a concurrent backup live onto Dat.  Lo and behold, something "happened" (can't say what), and the only source available (actor had left the building when the anomoly occurred) was the Dat.  Rewound it, dubbed the offending sections in D>D, and on we went.

Double system saved the day.
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Ronny

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 11:42:18 PM »

L. Magyar wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 14:45

Hi all- This is my first post here on the forum. A recent discussion came up in a production class I am in and I wonder if I could get some opinions? The question asked:
Digital audio tape has all of the advantages except-
a.   They can be readily available for playback
b.   The tape can be used over and over again  
c.   Digital audio tape can be easily edited
d.   All of the above

The instructor (who also wrote the test), asserts that the answer is c- Assuming that the question is based on DAT tape, where does everyone stand? My argument is this- Answer a, unless we are talking time-code DAT there is no solid way to quickly pull up material from multiple areas of the tape, ala sampler or audio compact disk. Answer b, oxide shedding anyone? Yes, a DAT or SVHS or Hi8 will last through all kinds of session use, but a studio can’t recycle the same the same digital tape over and over again. Answer c, Again- maybe if the DAT is time-coded-  even then what are you going to do deck to deck editing? You could use the players digital outs to go into a computer and stay in the digital world ect- but that’s beyond the scope of the question (or the class). So wouldn't it be fair to say that the answer is d? If I’m being stupid or this is inappropriate for the forum just let me know, but any input would be appreciated!
Thanks in Advance




vernier, I don't know what rock you've been hiding under. DAT is still used like Tim said. It's not the popular media that it once was, but I still receive DAT's to master on occasion and it's no more obsolete than vinyl records are.

a. They can be readily available for playback.

Compared to what? You still have to FF and RW a DAT tape to get to audio in the middle of a program, with an HD-R and a location point its a simple matter of one button push and you are at the start of the audio. This is true with regard to puchasing tape, but not with the speed of locating, compared to hard disk.

b. The tape can be used over and over again

This is true. I've recorded over some DAT's at least 50 times. BTW, there is no shedding on DAT's, at least not that I'm aware of, or at this point in time.

c. Digital audio tape can be easily edited

While this is partially true, again compared to what? Some of the DAT's had jog/shuttle editing and although it's no where as comprehensive as jog/shuttle editing with a stand alone HD-R, you can write start, end and skip points and create TOC's that can be transferred straight to a glass master as P-Q codes. This data is written to a subcode track along with SMPTE or other timecode data. You can't do this with most analog, you have to dedicate an audio track to the stripe, old ADAT tape too. So DAT tape can be edited easier than some analog mediums, but not as good as hd editing. A DAT j/s editor with two decks is much more efficient at basic editing, (copy, paste, move, erase) than splicing annie tape and there is no degradation when pasting from one deck to the next.

BTW, I transferred several hundred gigs of DAT tape audio to 120 gig hard drives last year. DAT's that I've used over the years were 60m, 90m and 120m tapes and some other smaller and off standard length tapes to fit some program material specifically. 60m's were typically 2 hours 4 minutes. 90m were 3 hours 8 min. and the 120s were 4 hours and 16 minutes of 44.1k or 48k audio. Some of the DAT machines will run at 32k which doubles the time length on the DAT. Because FM radio maxes at around 15k frequency response output, 32k DAT's were used to broadcast long play programs. For example the 120m's at 32k would record and playback. 8 and a half hours and still play all of the freq's that FM can broadcast. Most of my masters were recorded to 60m's and I always made a second safe copy, I could get 2 to 3 cd's worth of back up cd projects on one DAT which held 1.3 gigs. Now that I've transferred them to 120 gigs using dual bay stand alone audio HD-R's, I can access 240 Gigs anywhere with just a couple of button pushes. To access the same amount of songs on the DAT's, I would have to load in and out of the tray 184 60m DAT tapes. Than I'd also have to FF to specific locations.

You have my permission to show my post to your instructor.  
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Level

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2005, 12:09:16 AM »

Editing with DAT machines is still a pain in the ass. I'd rather use a razor blade with open reel anyday.
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Ronny

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2005, 02:08:40 AM »

Level wrote on Thu, 27 October 2005 00:09

Editing with DAT machines is still a pain in the ass. I'd rather use a razor blade with open reel anyday.



Editing tape is absolutely the worse thing about the old annie days to me. It was really the only part of it that resembled work. I was in hog heaven when I got my first j/s hd editor back in 96.    
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vernier

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2005, 02:14:36 AM »

Everything analog is wonderful, even editing.
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Ronny

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2005, 02:32:24 AM »

vernier wrote on Thu, 27 October 2005 02:14

Everything analog is wonderful, even editing.



Are you old enough to remember the 8 track cartridge days, when the steets and highways were littered with long stands of twisted tape? Every corner in every city had tape laying in the street. The cartridges would start dragging and squeaking, people would toss them out the window, other cars would run over them and tape was every where. Digital media cleaned up our streets. It's environmentally the best format.  Laughing
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JamSync

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Re: Question about the characteristics of DAT tape
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2005, 02:51:38 AM »

Ronny wrote on Thu, 27 October 2005 07:08

Level wrote on Thu, 27 October 2005 00:09

Editing with DAT machines is still a pain in the ass. I'd rather use a razor blade with open reel anyday.



Editing tape is absolutely the worse thing about the old annie days to me. It was really the only part of it that resembled work. I was in hog heaven when I got my first j/s hd editor back in 96.    



Editing mixes was fun, but editing 2" to tighten drums was always scary for me. Make a mistake when you take out 1/4" of tape and it's a pita to put it back. Nothing like window editing those piano notes for Ringo's voice though...I always wanted to see someone actually make that technique work.
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