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[Benmrx]

First off, thanks to everyone who's helped me out on here.  I just discovered online forums a few months ago.....and have become addicted!

Well, someday soon (hopefully) our studio will be on the look-out for a decent console.  We're a smaller studio, and really geared towards the analog way of recording.  I have no interest in dropping the cash for a PTHD system.  

Our budget will probably be under $10,000.  

Automation is a tricky one......The Otari and Soundtracs seem to be about it in our price range...although I've seen a few Neoteks with VCA go for under $10K.  Basically a console without automation means I'll have to use Pro Tools, as I really like to "build a mix", but my dream is to keep it all analog.

Is the option of upgrading one of these types of boards with say.....an uptown system be out of the question?  I don't want to spend more money on the automation then the actual console.

My guess is that the Otari and Soundtracs would have the weakest sounding preamps, but that's not a big deal as there are more then enough options for outboard preamps.  I would be more interested in having some decent EQ's.  

Is the Otari Status or Soundtracs Solitaire a modular console?  Cause that would play a big part in making a decision.

I know Oram is not a popular name here, but I just saw a 32 ch. BEQ24 go on ebay for $5,000.  And at that price range.....maybe it's a good deal?  Would a BEQ be better then a Trident series 65/75 in terms of preamps, EQ's, maintaining?

I really don't know that much about Ameks...I've seen a few Einstiens and Langelys in this price range.

BTW, not interested in MCI or Soundcraft.

Sorry for the long post, any help/advice/past experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Also, we pretty much record bands.....drums, bass, guitars, keys, ect.  Mostly "indie rock".........mostly......If  you care to take a peak at the studio, there are some pictures at:

http://myspace.com/mysteriousredx





   

[RKrizman]

I'd forget the Trident 65.  I get better mixes in the box.

-R

[Benmrx]

good to know, that's the kind of feedback I'm looking for.  I really want to stop mixing in the box, and I want a console where the extra effort (recalls, automation, ect.) will be worth it.

[Brian Roth]

I can comment on the Otari "Concept 1" desk since I installed one new-from-the-crate approx. 12 years ago.

Exceptionally reliable.  The power supplies are a semi-weak point (what else is new???) but are easy to repair since they use industry-standard open frame linear modules mounted inside Otari-branded rack chassis boxes.

I've replaced one bad opamp and one bad coupling cap in different modules in the past 12 (?) years.

Nothing else has failed in a desk that was powered 24/7/365.  It IS fed from a UPS system since the computer-driven parts get really spacey with power "blinks", etc.

The Concept is NOT a "hard motherboard" design since it uses a lot of ribbon cables.  One downside has been audio crosstalk in the patchbay wire harness with semi-Hi-Z sources such as synths.

The mic preamps, and EQs, are at-best "pedestrian" quality.

Bri

[Brian Roth]

I can comment on the Otari "Concept 1" desk since I installed one new-from-the-crate approx. 12 years ago.

Exceptionally reliable.  The power supplies are a semi-weak point (what else is new???) but are easy to repair since they use industry-standard open frame linear modules mounted inside Otari-branded rack chassis boxes.

I've replaced one bad opamp and one bad coupling cap in different modules in the past 12 (?) years.

Nothing else has failed in a desk that was powered 24/7/365.  It IS fed from a UPS system since the computer-driven parts get really spacey with power "blinks", etc.

The Concept is NOT a "hard motherboard" design since it uses a lot of ribbon cables.  One downside has been audio crosstalk in the patchbay wire harness with semi-Hi-Z sources such as synths.

The mic preamps, and EQs, are at-best "pedestrian" quality.

Bri

[J.J. Blair]

BTW, why not MCI?  There have been some amazing records made on MCIs.

[Benmrx]

Brian - That's great news about the concept you installed.  Sounds very reliable.  You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge here, but not sure what you mean by a "hard motherboard" design.  I only wonder what similarities the Concept and the Status have in common.  

Blair - correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been under the impression that most MCI desks (at least the older models I would be able to afford) and Harrison desks would require the most tech work and upkeep.  And I'm not that great a tech.  

We have an Otari MTR90 MKII 2" machine, and it works great.  It's a work horse.  I can calibrate it, and keep that end up.  But when (for instance) we needed to replace the left hand tension arm, we brought in a tech.  Which is fine.  It wouldn't be fine if we had to bring in a tech all the time just to keep sessions going, but once every so often to check the mechanical alignment and maybe replace a part here or there is too be expected.  That's the kind of relationship I would like to have with a console.  

[seriousfun]

Benmrx wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 14:04

... Is the option of upgrading one of these types of boards with say.....an uptown system be out of the question?  I don't want to spend more money on the automation then the actual console. ...

Unfortunately, that will be the case (unless you find a used console with automation installed, or a used automation system pulled from a console). Flying Faders is the only currently available and supported automation system, and it always was premium priced.

[Benmrx]

Doug - I figured that would be the case, but wasn't sure if there were some less expensive options.

It really seems that if you want a board with automation for under $10K, then the only choices are the Otari Status and the Soundtracs Solitaire.

I would love to hear from someone that has worked on both of these boards.  Off the bat, I would think the Otari would be a bit better in terms of build.  Not sure about the sound though.  

I know there were some old API guys involved in some of the Otari desks, but I would think that they sound/work nothing like an API.

Also....I know, I know....but what about the Oram BEQ?  Putting all politics aside, is it just total crap.....maybe a Mackie with a better routing scheme?  Would you go with a Soundcraft Ghost over an Oram board if they were priced the same.  

[natpub]

Tactile Technologies (Tac Tech) boards are in that price range and have quality pre's., eq, etc., as well as full automation and flying faders.

They are no longer commercially manufactured, so you have to look around for them used. There are numerous folks in our various forum communities who swear by them.

As always with such a desk, be prepared for maintenance costs.

[drumsound]

First off the Neotek consoles (Elan and Elite) sound great and seem to be pretty trouble free,  The mute buttons are a little hinky, I need to replace a few of mine.  I have VCA auto that works well, but it is mutes and faders only, nothing like recall without making sheets by hand...

Second let's talk Oram.  I've heard various thinks as have you.  the biggest things that stick with me though are the John Klett story (search the rec-pit archives), and what I was told by a Sweetwater employee.  I asked a Sweetwater guy why they didn't carry Oram any longer.  He told me that every Oram piece they ever sold came back for warranty work.

[Benmrx]

Tactile Technologies - haven't ever heard of them before.  Got something new to look up.  

Oram - no matter how hard I try, I can not get a single person to ever swain my interest towards purchasing one of their products.  Even a 32 ch., 24 buss BEQ console for $5,000!.  I guess if it's too good to be true.........

Neotek really seems to be the way to go for a good used console in the $10K range, unless you randomly run across a 24 ch. Calrec or something.  I'm curious as to why they don't go for more in the used market?  It would also be nice, cause I don't any other studio's around here have a Neotek.

Still would love a Soundtracs Solitaire vs. Otari Status comparison.  Is one more vanilla then the other?  better (which to me means more stable) automation?

I feel like I made a good choice going for an Otari deck, I want to make that same type of console purchase.....reliable workhorse, may not sound the best, but it'll do the job quite well.

Thanks for everyones input so far.  

[Rick Sutton]

The Otari / API connection was when some API employees were combined with SoundWorkshop people to design Otari a "flagship" console about 15 years ago. The result was the Otari Series 54. I bought one new in 1991 with Discmix automation and the board has been extremely reliable. Have seen these come up occassionly for stupid low prices like 10k for a console with moving fader auto. Probably 120k when new. Like any console, maintenance history is critical. Mine runs like new but I know of one series 54 that was totally screwed up by a tech that reinstalled some jumpers backward and powered it up messing up the control room module and the solo logic. Take a good look and listen to any used console before laying your money down. If they won't get it in a situation where you can run it through its paces, beware.

[Benmrx]

"If they won't get it in a situation where you can run it through its paces, beware"

Very good point.  I was wondering what people do when they win a bid on ebay for some large format console.  If it were me, and I was laying down 10K, I think a $200 plane ticket could be arranged to check it out in person.  

If it weren't set-up to run signal through, would a qualified tech be able to give a proper check up?  Enough to lay down the cash?  I wonder.

At the same time, when the time comes I'll wait till the right board comes along.  I just want to narrow it down to a couple specific models.  I completely understand that any board will need some maintenance from time to time, and most likely any board when it first arrives will need a couple things fixed.  For me, it's worth it.  I really enjoy the workflow of a real console....and analog for that matter.  

Rick - That story of a tech screwing up a series 54 is scary.  

[Brian Roth]

Benmrx wrote on Tue, 05 July 2005 09:42

Brian - That's great news about the concept you installed.  Sounds very reliable.  You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge here, but not sure what you mean by a "hard motherboard" design.  I only wonder what similarities the Concept and the Status have in common.

I found a pic of a Status just now to see what it was.  It looks like a slightly smaller version (less sends or EQ perhaps?) of the Concept.  Cosmetics are very similar.

When I refer to a "hard motherboard", I mean where the modules plug into sockets down inside the frame.  The Concept uses ribbon cables instead.  On one hand, that does mean you don't need an extender module to service a module.  In this case, it's extender wire harnesses.

Bri