R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?  (Read 8694 times)

acorec

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 89
How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« on: June 30, 2005, 11:04:50 AM »

A question I would like answers to. How many of you guys still cut tape? I would imagine that a DAW and digital editing saves tons of $$$, but, do studios still cut tape?
Logged

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2005, 11:22:10 AM »

I sometimes splice takes together on the 2" when called for.  I know that Nick Launay does lots of splicing with 2".
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

electrical

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 674
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2005, 11:33:37 AM »

I do, every time. Pocket knives are too unreliable.
Logged
best,

steve albini
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
www.electrical.com

Greg Reierson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 425
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2005, 11:41:26 AM »

electrical wrote on Thu, 30 June 2005 10:33

I do, every time. Pocket knives are too unreliable.


HAR!


GR
------------------------------
Rare Form Mastering
Minneapolis, MN
Logged

Rail Jon Rogut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 570
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2005, 11:43:35 AM »

The recently released Ry Cooder "Chavez Ravine" album I recorded was tracked to 2" and I did some edits (although I had a hard time finding a grease pencil at the studio).

Rail
Logged
Recording Engineer

www.platinumsamples.com

Engineered Drums for BFD & Superior Drummer 2.0

Sarusan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2005, 03:48:24 PM »

The last time was a year ago.  Wish it were more often.  I tell you, after splicing together a 2" master you feel like you've done something.  Don't think that you ever get that feeling of satisfaction with a DAW.

Another interesting thing I've noticed is that artists respond really strongly to it.  They see the blade and suddenly they're making a "real" record instead of continuing the demo.

Steven
Logged

Plush

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2005, 04:17:11 PM »

Definitely still cutting tape here--1/4" and 1/2".
Doing it for convenience, time saving and because I've always done it.


Hudsonek
Logged
Hudson Fair
Atelier HudSonic, Chicago

http://www.myspace.com/hudsonek

Matthew J Barnhart

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2005, 04:37:16 PM »

I'm a relatively young buck (28), and I edit 2" tape whenever necessary during tracking, and 1/4" during every mixing session. I've never bounced anything from the 2" to the DAW for editing, then back to tape either.

It's plenty fast for me and the bands I work with, and considering the amount of editing I'm doing the cost isn't any more than it would be using a DAW.

Then again, I'm not making disco records.

mb
Logged

Greg Youngman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 609
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2005, 05:29:33 PM »

I'm an old guy (52).  I like the pocket knife answer!!!  I wonder now, if we'll get into a "what razor blades are the best" thread??

I learned how to edit tape at about the age of 10.  The guy had Ampex ½" 3 track and 350 2 tracks.  God, those were fun times!  
Logged
Web Site
My Space
Blog

"Everyone's a guitar player... everyone's a mastering engineer." 1995 - GY

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2005, 06:39:00 PM »

Ten years ago, I had to make a track sound like a record was skipping, and I achieved it all through tapes edits.  It was tedious, but I was so proud of myself.  My internship at the ad agency after highschool really paid off!

Also, before DAW was affordable (only Sonic Solutions back then), and before I had a 1/2", I had to edit about 200 minutes of comedy material into a 74 minute CD all on the 2" @ 15 ips.  One of the only times I wished I had a DAW instead of tape.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

satisfactory

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2005, 10:10:39 PM »

yessir!

mostly 1/2" 8trk here

yesterday i had to fix a late snare drum hit.

i definitely prefer editing to:
reading a magazine or
dicking around on the interweb or
whatever i'm usually doing while The Band is Doing The Rock.

Logged
justin collins,
satisfactoryatburntsienna dot com

vernier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 809
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2005, 10:45:15 PM »

Digital editing will be obsolete (I give it two years max) .. and computers (as well as the net) will be completely gone (in probably shorter time than digital lasts) so, it's be probably best to stock up on blades now (as much as you can afford).
Logged

Ronny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2739
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2005, 11:17:01 PM »



I haven't used a splicing block in over 10 years. Just doesn't make sense if the final product is cd or dvd. It's much faster to load in and edit in the digital domain. It's more precise. If you screw up you can undo the damage with a push of the button. The tapes will archive better without splicing tape. You don't risk having a splice come loose and dump tape on the floor. I can't understand why anyone would splice when they can edit non-destructively.
Logged
------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
---------http://digitakmastering.com---------
----------Powered By Experience-------------
-------------Driven To Perfection---------------

wwittman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7712
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2005, 11:49:59 PM »

Sure. Cutting tape is really no big deal.

Actually re: pocket knives... Geoff Daking used ot carry a sharpened one that he'd edit 2" tape with... as he really liked how it freaked out the client.
You have to admire that.


Logged
William Wittman
Producer/Engineer
(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...)

Matthew J Barnhart

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2005, 01:07:52 AM »

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 04:17

I haven't used a splicing block in over 10 years. Just doesn't make sense if the final product is cd or dvd.


My perspective (stolen outright from engineers much smarter than I) is that the band's "final product" is the master tape that they'll keep forever, not the pressed CD.

In fifty years, if they're so lucky, Dave Collins III will remaster their record for release as Super Whizbang Infinite Bandwidth Telepathic Impression Music (SWIBTIM -- Copyright Me!), and the record will play back exactly the same as it did when the band made it.

DC III also won't be able to bill 10,000 Space Rubles per hour, recreating edits that I did for peanuts (or, more precisely, Thai food with peanut sauce) half a century before.

This then leads us into the analog vs. digital storage debate, which shouldn't really be entertaining for anyone at this point, right?

mb
Logged

lord

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2005, 08:50:02 AM »

Vernier, you are so high. Smile

Somebody asked me recently why we used naked razor blades instead of x-acto knives or similar modern cutting utensils.

I wasn't sure what the answer to that one was. But I'm sure it has something to do with the little dance they do near the han-d-mag?
Logged

xonlocust

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 237
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2005, 09:39:26 AM »

like the barnhart - i'm a youngin (29) doing it all on on 1/4" and 2". doubly agreed how often my clients say the best part of recording is when i A) spot erase B) rock the reels and they hear shit all satanic like C) use the razor.  basically: all the reasons why DAWs are "better" than tape. clearly everyone here knows that all of that stuff is no rocket science, but the perception among my small set of clients is that i know something the other people don't - and they're making a bona fide record.  they also typically are coming from having done previous sessions on DAW and leave saying they love tape and don't want to go DAW in the future.

this is probaly not suprisingly, punk and indie rock work.

Ronny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2739
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2005, 12:59:28 PM »

Matthew J Barnhart wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 01:07

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 04:17

I haven't used a splicing block in over 10 years. Just doesn't make sense if the final product is cd or dvd.


My perspective (stolen outright from engineers much smarter than I) is that the band's "final product" is the master tape that they'll keep forever, not the pressed CD.

In fifty years, if they're so lucky, Dave Collins III will remaster their record for release as Super Whizbang Infinite Bandwidth Telepathic Impression Music (SWIBTIM -- Copyright Me!), and the record will play back exactly the same as it did when the band made it.

DC III also won't be able to bill 10,000 Space Rubles per hour, recreating edits that I did for peanuts (or, more precisely, Thai food with peanut sauce) half a century before.

This then leads us into the analog vs. digital storage debate, which shouldn't really be entertaining for anyone at this point, right?

mb


Believe me Matthew, storing tape with many splices on it is by far worse than storing the original uncut tape. The splicing tape adhesive can deteriorate causing the tape to break apart when playing back. Some adhesives can liquify over time, run and gums up sections of tape that aren't spliced. If the final destination is going to be digital media, than transferring to digital realm and doing the editing there non destructively is a much better choice. Also, this past week I've been restoring some annie tapes that date back as far as 1968, some of the takes on these tapes were unacceptable at the time and were scratched and put on the out takes shelf. 35 years later, I load them into a DAW and using modern technology have now turned out takes into acceptable tracks for mixing. Had these original tapes been spliced, I never would have been able to edit and restore them.

You guys using pocket and exacto knives should spend the 20 bucks for a splicing block. The ones that I use have the razors built into the device, two clamping arms that firmly hold the tape and the razors are on the diagonal so that all splices come out uniformly the same. You simple press down on the razor arm and there is no physical cutting with a knife or hand held razor. Once you work with a block for a couple of weeks and get used to it, it's 5 times faster than using an exacto knife.
Logged
------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
---------http://digitakmastering.com---------
----------Powered By Experience-------------
-------------Driven To Perfection---------------

McAllister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2005, 01:35:52 PM »

I do, though it's not a commercial studio - just my own place where I do mostly my own stuff.

Thankfully, I don't need to do it too often.

M

Logged
Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone.

satisfactory

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2005, 04:05:38 PM »

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 19:59


You guys using pocket and exacto knives should spend the 20 bucks for a splicing block.


a twenty dollar splice block?  it is made out of tupperware?

remember:  one button 'undo' is mostly convenient for people who make mistakes Very Happy

Logged
justin collins,
satisfactoryatburntsienna dot com

Ronny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2739
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2005, 10:30:36 PM »

satisfactory wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 16:05

Ronny wrote on Fri, 01 July 2005 19:59


You guys using pocket and exacto knives should spend the 20 bucks for a splicing block.


a twenty dollar splice block?  it is made out of tupperware?

remember:  one button 'undo' is mostly convenient for people who make mistakes Very Happy




The ones that I have are stainless steel and chromed steel. I don't think they had Tupperware when these were manufactured.
Logged
------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
---------http://digitakmastering.com---------
----------Powered By Experience-------------
-------------Driven To Perfection---------------

satisfactory

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2005, 04:35:23 AM »

yknow its an easy 200 bucks for a new 2" editall block nowadays?

probably because they have to wait until AFTER an order comes in before they blow the dust off the mold!
Logged
justin collins,
satisfactoryatburntsienna dot com

Ronny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2739
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2005, 06:27:24 AM »

satisfactory wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 04:35

yknow its an easy 200 bucks for a new 2" editall block nowadays?

probably because they have to wait until AFTER an order comes in before they blow the dust off the mold!



Ha ha ha, I wasn't thinking about inflation. At least you don't have to worry about wearing them out.
Logged
------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
---------http://digitakmastering.com---------
----------Powered By Experience-------------
-------------Driven To Perfection---------------

dcollins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2815
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2005, 03:20:57 PM »

I've sure been fixing more splices then ever!  

Is going to leader becoming a lost art?

DC

Jerry Tubb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2761
Re: How many still edit analog with a razor blade?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2005, 11:16:45 PM »

acorec wrote on Thu, 30 June 2005 10:04

do studios still cut tape?


Yes they do !

Yesterday I mastered a record from 1/4" tape that was properly edited/leadered... Sugar Hill Studios in Houston still doin it !

..also fix lots of dried spices on older tapes during remastering.

de-mag those razor blades.
Logged
Terra Nova Mastering
Celebrating 20 years of Mastering!
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 

Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.137 seconds with 16 queries.