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Author Topic: Tele V-series for dummies/budget  (Read 8291 times)

antti

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Tele V-series for dummies/budget
« on: January 30, 2005, 01:46:49 pm »

Hi folks!

My question is about racking Telefunken modules.
I've seen few german sites who sell V-series modules
separate, then the 24V power supplies, racks, etc.

Basically what is your view of best way (or at least
best value for money) to get a working pair of Tele
pres?  Buy the modules, psu and rack separate or
buy already racked one? Am I taking a big risk if
buying things separate? Any tips?

The modern TAB stuff surely would be ideal
(I've heard building quality is excellent and having
48V, phase invert, etc  makes it very convenient)
but my budget won't go that far..

Also, I need something with
a plenty of gain as I use ribbon & dynamic mics a lot.
V76 or V77 would be ideal but how do the transistor ones
sound? They've often been compared to Api & Neve
stuff. What do you think? I've only used V76 in the past which
was amazing. How do Neumann, Filtek, Siemens stuff
compare to transistor Telefunkens? Thanks!
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Tele V-series for dummies/budget
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2005, 11:47:52 pm »

Hello Antti,

I am afraid there is no way around spending some cash here, how much depends on you idea of sound.

There are several different modules made during the tube and transistor area, but only 10% are good as mic pres. About 10 to 15 years back radio stations all across europe dumped out the old stuff, mostly if you picked it up it was yours, today there is nearly nothing left and the old junk is getting traded high on e-bay etc.
There are not to many good useable mic worthy units, so most dealers sell everything that bares the name Telefunken, Siemens, Neumann and TAB as very rare something. People contacted me if I could help them to get their U370 compressors running, they paid about $700 for a pair and were told a very special version of the U373...  By the way the U370 is a light meter driver....
Routing, buffer and everything that gives you some sort of gain is always labeled as the classic Tele sound, etc....

Without the proper interfacing units or buffers, there is not to much what you can use, mic pres were either V72,76,77 and 78, forget about the a/b/t stuff they are just buffers and may or may not sound good as mic pres...
The transistor area units were based on the tube modules so designations are the same V276 (376, 476 and 676) are designated mic pres, and the V272,372,672 are mic pres but need in most cases modifications to sound good.
Everything else ANT, Lawo, etc. is not worth the price because they do not sound the same than the tube and real transistor units.

I do not think API, Neve etc. compare to the german transistor modules, entirely different battle class....

To rack or not to, is quite a difficult question, first I would put the money were it is badly needed, rebuild the units first, make sure it is done by a professional and done to specs, before you get into the cosmetic part.
Racking, very nice to have but most racks are quite questionable for the price they are offered. If you buy plug and play racked units, make sure it was done right...

To answer your question in short, there is no shortcut into good sound, if you want to V76, save the money and buy one, if you do not want to spent get something that is cheap, there are several hundred mic pres out there you can get for under $100...

If you have lots of time check out the Surplus offering of german radio stations.
Here is one link:
http://www.wdr.de/unternehmen/t-boerse/index.jhtml
There are about 20 government owned in germany so lot of potential to get some cool stuff...

Best regards,
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www.tab-funkenwerk.com

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antti

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Re: Tele V-series for dummies/budget
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2005, 01:32:01 pm »

Oliver, thanks for your reply.

Hmmm... This Tele thing has been wondering me
for a few years now and in fact I quessed that the
only way to get the real V72/V76/V77 sound was to
spend money. Fine.. understood.. thanks for your
confirmation! The V672/676 interests me
as a 'coloured' pre to have when tracking/doing
overdubs. Just to have something with 'character'.
I'm so bored walking into studios and using the
same shit all over again (Neve vr pres, Focusrites,
Avalon combos, etc or mackie/soundcraft/whatever
lower budget thingys). Those things work (depending
of the style of music)but no wonder everything sounds
the same these days as everybody uses the same gear.
I actually prefer tracking with MCI 500 series or
Trident B series than 'modern' Neves.

Another unit I'm interested in is Neumann w495b eq?
That seems pretty good value for money but
is it worth it.. or is it versatile enough to be
poor man's GML 8200 for example? not so much
in a surgical way but more to be able to round/warm
up the bass end and add shelving 14kHz for sheen
(in a musical way without distracting the mix too much).
or what about german passive eq designs? are they
worth being as poor man's Pultecs? Ok, they won't
do exactly the same thing.. fine. Neither do
modern copys like Manleys, Tubetechs, Summits
but they offer something similar (or not) but I
find them useful for certain things (Tubetech
for sweet top/Summit for lo end/Manley for
midrange).

Sure, if I want the 8200 or EQP1A sound I
have to invest for the real units. But.. what
I am looking for is something to warm up/give
colour to my digital mixes/tracks. Either a fairly
'transparent' unit or a very drastic one. Neumanns?
Siemens w295b? Filteks? Ntps? Eckmillers?

The only 'cheaper' german unit I've used is the
EMT 156 mastering compressor which I liked.
I wish I would have bought it back then. Again..
It's not as versatile as modern mastering comps
but a good value for money imo.

Any help/tips appreciated! Cheers,

Antti

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RMoore

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Re: Tele V-series for dummies/budget
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2005, 02:33:04 pm »

Antti Uusimaki wrote on Mon, 31 January 2005 19:32

 
Another unit I'm interested in is Neumann w495b eq?
That seems pretty good value for money but
is it worth it..  


High qual stereo EQ modules used in vinyl mastering rigs & Neumann consoles (a loss making Neumann side-business)..
They sound great..nice bottom, adjustable mid 'Q'..
Still used by mastering pros..
Switchable low, mid, high
I have 495b & use them for stereo stuff & DIY mastering for vinyl..
My tech added extra audio x-formers to the cheap rack I got..
the eqs weren't sounding good the way I got 'em..
The most 'useful' of the German EQs for modern apps IMHO.
The only only one you'd prob want to send stereo mixes through..

Quote:


Siemens w295b?



Sound 'tubey'..
Fixed low, fixed high, switchable mids
Very nice low end, sizzly high,
'Baxendal' curve I think
Great, musical EQ


Quote:


Eckmillers?



Fixed 60 HZ, 10 KHZ
Amazing low end,
High sizzle,
Sound very similar to 295b but a bit more 'thick' & 'smooth'..
a subtle diff.
Passive so you need a line amp like V72 due to gain loss,
meant to be used with the V72 I do believe..
Shelving eq I think.
I use a lot for bass.
'Phat'

Quote:

The only 'cheaper' german unit I've used is the
EMT 156 mastering compressor which I liked.
I wish I would have bought it back then. Again..
It's not as versatile as modern mastering comps
but a good value for money imo.



I think the EMT 156 was big $$ new..


FWIW - with EQs I usually reach for my API 550b 1st in tracking / mixing..
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Tele V-series for dummies/budget
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2005, 08:25:50 pm »

Hello Antti,

the Neumann range of EQs are all feedback controlled Op amps design, and in the same range/class than the GML ones. However, nearly all of them have no output x-former and are very sensitive to wrong hook up. You can blow very easy the output stage and drop $200 plus to get them up and running again, first of course finding a qualified tech...

The EMT 156 are pulse with modulation devices, they do not belong into the analog category at all, nor digital. But even audio junkies frown upon the PWM concept, original developed by Philips, the compressor is quite good doing the leveling part.... For very clean accurate material one of the better ones to have... Here again very, very, very hard to fix if needed...

Best

Oliver
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