R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: About Sixties Reverb:  (Read 22370 times)

compasspnt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16266
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2005, 09:29:04 am »

WhyKooper wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 01:53

I'm still trying to figure out if the guys who remixed this stuff used new reverb or the old AR equipment.  I've tried getting more info, but contacting those people at Abbey Road is like trying to walk into Ft Knox.


I have been told that, wherever possible, the re-mixers used the original chambers and/or plates at Abbey Road.

I believe that the "less than full" sound complained about by posters in this thread would apply mostly to the horrendous re-mixing or re-mastering performed by Capitol for the US releases.

Capitol should have been arrested for what they did to The Beatles sonically.  But at least they sold some records...
Logged

WhyKooper

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2005, 11:02:07 am »

Yeah, I haven't heard all the re-released remastered Capitol cd Beatle stuff.  The only thing I've had close listens to is the dvd anthology.  Which I think is absolutely great.  Especially after having also devoured the Lewisohn Beatles studio notes book.  

I just wish all the complete songs were there.  I think Penny Lane is one of the few.  Besides the surround mixes, it is so nice to hear Penny Lane with a natural stereo balance instead of the mix the guys were stuck with making from the tons of submixing they were forced into back in the original sessions.  If the remixes indeed utilized the original chambers and plates for reverb, I think they did a much better balance of all the original effects this time around.

Based on some of the criticism, guess I'll take a closer listen to the surround mixes again on the Yellow Sub dvd.  I haven't listened in a while, but I really liked the balances and eq on the new surround version of Day Tripper (I thought) last time I put that dvd in.  Since Paul/George/Ringo/Yoko sat there at AR and approved the mixes together themselves, you'd figure they'd have caught any strangeness that they didn't like.
Logged

Bob Olhsson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3968
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2005, 03:28:17 pm »

pontuso wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 03:13

...Up to Sgt Pepper I only listened to the UK mono albums ,which if I´m correct where the only mix sessions Beatles attended...

Sgt. Peppers was the first Beatles album mixed in stereo but I'm told nobody attended although George Martin signed off on it. The mono is quite a bit better.

All "stereo" prior to Sgt Pepper was a kludge Capital made for US release from a copy of the final 4-track work tapes. Because it was produced/intended entirely for mono, it was strange to say the least.

Capital added insult to injury by crediting the Capitol A&R guy who supervised this kludge (in addition to taking off all the low-end) as being co-producer with George Martin.

howlback

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 249
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2005, 02:03:05 pm »

They recently released the first 4 Capitol records in a box set, with both stereo and mono "mixes".

Thanks Bob, now I know why the mono mixes sound better!  I much prefer the Beatles post Rubber Soul, but mann that stuff sounds good!

-KEnt
Logged
 

pontuso

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2005, 07:06:27 pm »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 20:28

pontuso wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 03:13

...Up to Sgt Pepper I only listened to the UK mono albums ,which if I´m correct where the only mix sessions Beatles attended...

Sgt. Peppers was the first Beatles album mixed in stereo but I'm told nobody attended although George Martin signed off on it. The mono is quite a bit better.

All "stereo" prior to Sgt Pepper was a kludge Capital made for US release from a copy of the final 4-track work tapes. Because it was produced/intended entirely for mono, it was strange to say the least.

Capital added insult to injury by crediting the Capitol A&R guy who supervised this kludge (in addition to taking off all the low-end) as being co-producer with George Martin.


Bob.. Parlophone released what they called stereo albums right from the beginning in march 1963, almost a year prior their breakthrough in US.Most of the early tracks though, I would rather call double-mono (vocals to the right,backingtrack to the left) since Abbey Road got their first 4track late that year. All this according to the excellent book "Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn. I´ve read that George Martin was not particularly happy about those mixes.
Logged

Bob Olhsson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3968
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2005, 10:46:37 pm »

I just took a look at that. It's interesting because some people at EMI studios had told me this around 1969 and the head of Capitol A&R at the time had told me the same thing around ten years later.

compasspnt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16266
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2005, 11:36:15 pm »

Antti Uusimaki wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 11:14

Abbey Road still has the echo chamber in studio 2 and
6 EMT plates if I remember right. Terry, you recorded
Isaac Hayes's 'Walk On By', right? One of my all time
favourites and a reference. What was your approach
to that? Mics, mic placement? What was the set up for strings?
12-2-2? Was it cut live or did you overdub some parts? Thanks,

Antti


Hi Antti.  The whole story of Walk On By was just added to my "Forum of the Month Club" entry...

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/40/6490/?SQ=feb 7ca95b12f485671209d733180c794

Thanks,

Terry
Logged

canada

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2005, 04:50:15 am »

I'm afraid I would be quite disillusioned if the reverbs I'm hearing on the Beatles Anth DVD aren't the genuine article.

Calls for a conclusion, but I can't find the information!

Cheers, and thanks for the replies.
Logged
you're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it  -       malcolm x

George Massenburg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2005, 07:32:07 am »

Hey Terry,

I'm a HUGE fan of "Trashy Dog".  I would appear that you engineered that as well as played everything that Cropper and Pop Staples didn't.  And, in fact, you don't have alot of engineering credits.  What did you do back then?

George
Logged

Jonas as

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2005, 08:14:45 am »

canada wrote on Sun, 06 February 2005 10:50

I'm afraid I would be quite disillusioned if the reverbs I'm hearing on the Beatles Anth DVD aren't the genuine article.

Calls for a conclusion, but I can't find the information!

Cheers, and thanks for the replies.


Remember an article i read around the time that anthologhy was released where Martin where saying that the mixes where done on a original TG mixer, altough not the same as where used on abbey road, and that they where using an rebuilt  chamber wich was close to the original, but a bit on the bright side.
Logged

canada

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2005, 02:15:04 pm »

I must be a dork for assuming they ran the chamber mix to tape!

Cheers!
Logged
you're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it  -       malcolm x

Brian Kehew

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2914
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2005, 07:14:22 am »

(Please see; www.recordingthebeatles.com)

Our upcoming book has taken over 13 years to research and will have a significant amount of detail on this. Probably more than you might want to know, but as a reverb junkie myself, maybe not! The book IS nearly complete - were are working hard on the final chapter now. Sorry if this sounds like hype (I guess it is) but it is EXACTLY the information you seek.

The Echo Chamber section alone is about 8 pages. It covers the history and changes to each chamber - who designed them, who implemented them, the monitors and mics used, the sizes, uses, tricks etc. Including detailed photos of the equipment used in the "Echo Racks", as they were called in the 1960's. There were also EMT plates and other time-delay devices invented just for EMI. (We also have sections on the other studio used by the Beatles, with detail on their chambers/plates where available).

The Beatles' "Anthology" was indeed done with an Abbey Road chamber, however - despite probing the minds of the former studio staff - they were unable to come up with the proper setup for the chamber, and it does sound quite unlike the "old days". However, we were lucky enough to find the old setup in our research and it will be in the book...
Logged
Relax and float downstream...

Brian Kehew

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2914
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2005, 07:25:16 am »

I can see why many people would not like classic chambers. They can be VERY thick and heavy sounding. Plates would probably suit them more, but even these can be muddying and complex compared to many digiverbs.

But, the quality of a chamber is obvious when you hear it; literally MILLIONS of reflections bouncing around, with Doppler effects and surface reflections off every surface level. Like a drum room mic - when the quality is good, it does enhance the musical quality of the source sound. But when it's bad, it just mucks things up. Studios with existing chambers (usually built in the 1950's or 60's) still use them as main reverbs on a lot of things.

Every time I'm at Capitol, we use their chambers - all of which sound quite different. On the '60's and '70's, they USED to have a phone line you could hire for a certain length of time - you'd send your mix over the line to Capitol and they'd send it into their famous chambers. They would return the chamber sound back on another phone line! I think with high speed WWW, they should offer this service again....!
Logged
Relax and float downstream...

Bob Olhsson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3968
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2005, 08:30:29 am »

I heard about some guy in LA who had a bunch of EMTs you could dial up and rent by the hour.

WhyKooper

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: About Sixties Reverb:
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2005, 02:21:57 pm »

............"Please see; www.recordingthebeatles.com).Our upcoming book has taken over 13 years to research and will have a significant amount of detail on this....."


Sounds interesting but in what ways does it differ from the Lewisohn book?  Is your book going to reference equipment used to specific sessions, or just be a rundown of equipment that existed and how it generally worked?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up