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Author Topic: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)  (Read 7540 times)

zetterstroem

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2005, 11:54:17 am »

and trevor..... did you use the avalon on this song???

i'm used to the 2077 and it makes everything colder when i put it on....

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mastermind

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2005, 11:59:27 am »

ZETTERSTROEM wrote on Wed, 05 January 2005 10:54

and trevor..... did you use the avalon on this song???

i'm used to the 2077 and it makes everything colder when i put it on....




Yup... sure did.

t

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trevor sadler
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lucey

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2005, 01:08:22 pm »

i cant get tango to load on the mac right now


the other 2  ... again, listening on mini speakers:

sierra - smeary and nasty
uniform - punchy and smacked, clearer
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Brian Lucey
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jimmyjazz

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2005, 05:40:09 pm »

My preference, using cheap headphones:

1.  Tango
2.  Uniform
3.  Sierra


Sierra seemed too brittle on the top end, and it didn't have much in the way of balls in the low end, either.  Tango had the best vibe without sacrificing detail.  Is Uniform the one with clipping?  It was OK, but didn't seem quite as immediate as Tango.
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craig boychuk

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2005, 11:39:21 am »

I prefer Sierra.

I would guess that Tango is the clipped one.

Uniform had too much pumping & breathing for my liking.



I like the transients on Tango, but they maybe get a bit crispy at the very end of the clip. Still, it sounds more dynamic to me than the other two.

It's tough for me to tell which limiter is which. I'll bet with a different release setting, I would like uniform a lot more than I do.



-craig
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Ed Littman

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2005, 08:30:20 pm »

Tango for me too. clipping Very Happy
The others...no comment.

It sounded like the release was on about 100 on the L2.
Am I close?
Ed
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dcollins

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2005, 12:34:27 am »

Can we start adding "None of the Above" to these tests?

DC

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2005, 12:45:42 am »

LOL. Well, I did not participate in this one. I shall exit stage left now..(ducking the ball bat)
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ammitsboel

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2005, 09:25:35 am »

dcollins wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 05:34

Can we start adding "None of the Above" to these tests?


This is the reason i didn't wote... couldn't find the "none of the above" button.
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mastermind

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2005, 11:11:02 am »

ammitsboel wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 08:25

dcollins wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 05:34

Can we start adding "None of the Above" to these tests?


This is the reason i didn't wote... couldn't find the "none of the above" button.


Charming comments to be sure.... to be honest I could care less if you like any of the clips or not, but it would be nice if you could add something constructive to the conversation.

Keep in mind none of these were the version used for the CD (I can post a link to that clip if you'd like) - and the "limiting" is being pushed a bit. I think the point of the exercise is to see how different approaches to achieving gain produce different results and artifacts... as far as I'm concerned there have been some excellent observations made so far.

t

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trevor sadler
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zetterstroem

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2005, 11:28:03 am »

"I can post a link to that clip if you'd like"

yes please....

and no their comments aren't construcitive... i agree...

SKAM DIG HENRIK....  Embarassed
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ammitsboel

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2005, 12:32:14 pm »

mastermind wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 16:11

ammitsboel wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 08:25

dcollins wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 05:34

Can we start adding "None of the Above" to these tests?


This is the reason i didn't wote... couldn't find the "none of the above" button.


Charming comments to be sure.... to be honest I could care less if you like any of the clips or not, but it would be nice if you could add something constructive to the conversation.

Keep in mind none of these were the version used for the CD (I can post a link to that clip if you'd like) - and the "limiting" is being pushed a bit. I think the point of the exercise is to see how different approaches to achieving gain produce different results and artifacts... as far as I'm concerned there have been some excellent observations made so far.



Ups, I can see why you answered the way you did.
but my comment was purely based on not knowing witch one to choose believe it or not.
If you read my first post in this thread it says that i wouldn't select any of them based on only this clip, I will have to hear the whole song and maybe ask the band before i would chose any of them.
I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

Best Regards
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mastermind

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2005, 05:02:00 pm »

ZETTERSTROEM wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 10:28

yes please....


here ya go.... this is the clip, extracted from the final cd...

cd version

t

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trevor sadler
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bblackwood

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2005, 05:15:11 pm »

OK, here's the key:

sierra = L2 (release set to ARC)
tango = clipping
uniform = MD4 (profile was "loud", softclip was off)

Interesting how the voting ended:
1. sierra   4 / 27%
2. tango   9 / 60%
3. uniform   2 / 13%

Once again, pure clipping was preferred by most, this time in a landslide. Again, Bob preferred the clipped version overall (as did I), and Michael nailed them out of the gate, much to Henrik's dismay (hehe, I kid).

Once again, we're seeing that for different stuff, different approaches work better than others...

Thoughts?
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bobkatz

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Re: L2 vs. MD4 vs. clipping test #6 (TS - rock)
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2005, 07:19:42 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 10 January 2005 17:15



Once again, we're seeing that for different stuff, different approaches work better than others...

Thoughts?


Yeah, says Bob, going home with tail between his legs. I think what I learned is that tradeoff of artifacts is the key.  You're trading off "pure distortion" (perhaps inaudible if short duration) of the clipping versus the artifacts of attack/release time of any limiter.

However, if you look at the spread spectrum of the artifacts, we have another story. I would advocate doing EITHER the limiting or the clipping at 96 ks/s, for one thing. And the other is to look at the bit rate of various codecs attempting to work on the clipped file. I wager the spread spectrum of the limited file will be much less than the clipped file. The guys at the satellite radio companies are tearing their hair out over losing valuable bit space for their codecs when they try to broadcast clipped files.

Today, for example, I did no more than 0.2 to 0.5 dB of Weiss peak limiting in the Weiss DS1-Mk2. it's so small and so "transparent" it would be hard to decide which sounds "better", that or clipping, especially at 96ks/s. Important for us to realize that clipping at 96K may sound much better than at 44.1 for several reasons (less intermod/aliasing distortion).

Anyway, what I learned is I have to do a lot more investigation, yet not dismiss (slight) clipping out of hand. The reason is that limiting artifacts and release times introduce their own artifacts!
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