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[bblackwood]

Time for test #6! Here are the links to download three files (sierra, tango, and uniform) from Trevor Sadler. Download them and give them a listen, then come back and vote in the poll to tell us which one you think sounds 'better'. After a week or so (maybe more, maybe less), we'll release the answer of which is which...

links removed


[Warning - do not read further until you have listened - no reason to have someone else influnce your listening...]




































Discuss...

[bblackwood]

No one can see what you vote for, so tell us what you think...

Also, feel free to post your thoughts about what you are hearing...

[ATOR]

In ranking order from best to worst:

Tango
wider, more open more fizzle in the top. Doesn't have the limiter action like the others. This must be the clipped one.

Sierra
this was my reference file so not as wide and open as Tango but not as flat as Uniform. Best of the limiters. After listening some more this could become my favorite. From this file I prefer the quiet part over T and U.

Uniform.
This one is way too heavy limited for me, the whole mix clamps down, the snare almost disappears. Almost sounds as if it's played on the radio.


The pro of clipping is that the body of the mix doesn't change if a peak is 'limited'. You can clearly hear the effect of the limiters on the body of the mix with the other two masters. Maybe I'll do some experiments with clipping myself to see how it works out.

[Lee Flier]

The only one I didn't think was total doo doo was the first one (Sierra).  It's much more open than the other two, and bottom end is tight and focused.  In Tango in particular, the low end almost totally falls apart, and in both Tango and Uniform the space sounds more "closed" and the whole thing just gets messy.

[bobkatz]

I couldn't bear to listen to these for long because I'm currently listening to the finest-sounding stuff in the world, a new album from Marley's Ghost, 9624 or 1/2" (we haven't decided yet which to use), absolutely open, clear, dynamic, pure, great performances, vocals are recorded naturally and in a real room not on top of the mike, a wonderful set of acoustic instruments and arrangements by the group, produced by Van Dyke Parks.

In contrast, Father, please forgive me, my ears took a shock listening to this test stuff. The compression/limiting is obviously part of the sound, the up front, edgy stuff. Well, anyway, after a period of ear-adjustment, I preferred Tango over Uniform because Tango sounds "wider". Sierra is far behind, very distorted and ugly. Ironically, I dropped Tango by 0.2 dB but it still wins.

Let the games begin.

[ammitsboel]

Sierra:
Sounds a little "closed in" and distorted in the chorus.
Sounds processed(A little artificial maybe).

Tango:
Sounds a little "closed in" like Sierra but more distorted in the chorus.

Uniform:
More open sounding than the others.
The clipping is quite audible in the chorus.


The compromise for me lies in either sacrificing the open sound or get some clipping in the chorus.

...what i would use in a session depends entirely of what would suit the whole song and not just this clip.
-So no favorite from me!

[J Schroder]

Sierra and Tango seemed to overwhelm the vocal, making it an irrelevant distraction.  Uniform sounded like crap, but the song made more sense, lyrically.  Probably mixed by guitar player, or worse, a drummer...

John

[mastermind]

I smacked this stuff a fair bit harder than I normally would (none of these were the version that was used on the CD, approved by the band), but again, as Brad points out, it's nice to compare the differences when the different limiters are being pushed a bit.

The actual cut for the CD was probably about 1.5db lower than these  in level.

It's interesting to see the different comments on this...

t

[turtletone]

sierra is the L2

Tango is clipped

Uniform is the MD4

not sure about S and T.

Tango wins here for me.

[ammitsboel]

Hi mike  
Are you listening with your ear plugs again?

[turtletone]

doh!

I thought everything sounded a little dull. Ahhh, that's better. I can hear myself think now.

[ammitsboel]

Mike...
You aren't releasing masters judged on only your ear plugs, are you?? he he...

[zetterstroem]

sierra: wamer than the others.... but soft.... almost undynamic ... and pumping a bit

tango: thin and digital but sounds more dynamic

uniform : thin and digital and a bit distorted... still... more attack in the drums

my guess is:

sierra = tc with too long release for my taste

tango = clipped  (needs tape and tubes)

uniform = L2 because of similar tonal balance to tango

i like tango best... although i miss some of the warmth of sierra... but i would NOT like a limiter to add warmth... that's what tubes and tape are for....

in general use i think the (software) L2 doesn't alter the tonal balance too much.... but it can distort (i mostly use 3mS release and NEVER arc)

by the way... when i tested the m6000 the shortest release time of the limiter was 15mS.... has that improved??? i rejected the units because of that!

[turtletone]

ammitsboel wrote on Wed, 05 January 2005 11:06

Mike... You aren't releasing masters judged on only your ear plugs, are you?? he he...

Not anymore. Now what I do is strip naked and crank up the volume. If the hairs on my body tingle, I know I have enough high end. If i'm doing low end heavy stuff, I require a girl to sit in with me to make sure the kick is hitting in the chest. For the most part, this technique works really well. It only gets ugly if the band wants to attend the session. Then I have to stock up on plastic covers for the chairs.

[mastermind]

TurtleTone wrote on Wed, 05 January 2005 09:58

doh! I thought everything sounded a little dull. Ahhh, that's better. I can hear myself think now.

Really?  Hmmm... time to put toilet paper over the tweeters on the Dunlavy's ....      

t