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Author Topic: Uses for Neumann KM86?  (Read 43477 times)

compasspnt

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2004, 12:49:11 AM »

I have a pair which I love.  Especia;;y good on acoustic guitar about 6-8 inches from neck-meets-body area in cardiod.  So far my fave for this purpose.  They are a tiny bit noisy, tho.  I you want to sell yours, please let me know.  AND WHERE ARE THOSE NOS BLACK ONES???
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itsudemo

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2004, 03:52:14 PM »

For what it's worth (no pun intended) all the guitars on Neil Young's "Heart Of Gold" were done with KM86s (except the steel, which was a U87) - not a bad recommendation for a mic, IMHO.
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Mark Lemaire

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2004, 01:21:58 AM »

Itsudemo-

A very interesting bit of information!

In keeping with this forum's policies, could you tell us who you are, and if you were not the engineer for that session, please cite your source/ how you know this info to be true.

On top of THAT, do you know what pattern the 86 was set to for these tracks? I find that the 86, like many multipattern mics, has a totally different sound when switched from card to, say omni. I don't want to assume that it is used in cardiod unless stated to be so.

best regards

Mark L
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Mark Lemaire

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Mark Lemaire

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2004, 01:23:54 AM »

Bob Olhsson-

Do you have any info on what pattern Motown's 86s were mostly used on? For vocals, shall we assume cardiod?

sincerely

Mark L
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Mark Lemaire

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David Satz

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2004, 12:00:02 PM »

Mark, one thing's for sure: the "omni" and figure-8 settings of the KM 86 don't work as specified in close proximity to a sound source, because of the spacing between the dual cardioid capsules under the grille. Neumann used to recommend a minimum miking distance of 1 meter when using the KM 86 in those patterns.

--best regards
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2004, 06:30:08 PM »

We used all three patterns. Myself, I've always been a fan of using figure-8 mikes. There wasn't any problem I heard using omni or figure-8 a few inches away from something. The off-axis response in all patterns is lots more uniform than most mikes I've used.

If I wanted to use all the same mike today, I can't really think of anything that would work as well as those KM-86s did! I know RCA bought a bunch of them too but I have rarely seen or heard of any KM-86s since leaving Motown in 1972.

Klaus Heyne

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2004, 01:23:15 AM »

It has long been my opinion that the true quality of the superb K84 capsule system shines in a mic whose body does not, like the KM84, represent an acoustic obstacle to smooth processing of sound.

The KM86's capsule orientation- perpendicular to the mic's body- is preferable for smoothness of response and bass pop susceptibilty.

Its basket shape and volume, while not especially large, is big enough to nicely avoid short wavelength reflections, those in the highly audible upper mid range.

All in all, a most underrated mic which many orchestras and music institutions cherish.
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Klaus Heyne
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flashback

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2010, 11:02:23 PM »

By 1970 Crystal Sound in Hollywood was doing most L.A. Motown sessions and vocals would have been done on Telefunken U47, or an 87. No KM86s were used there.
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John P. Fischbach

Schallfeldnebel

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2010, 06:23:29 PM »

As David Satz already mentioned, the omni and figure-8 settings of the KM 86 don't work as specified in close proximity to a sound source. When using the km86 in Figure of 8 only a few inches away from a source, it probably reacts more as an omni with a lot of proximity effect than as a figure of eight. Sure it will give a very special sound.

I would not call the patterns that very uniform, the figure of eight is on its side very sharp, that it is not useable for MS stereo. At least when you don't like a sharp sound, and highend roll-off when switching to mono. Lately I have worked several times with the KM86/76 in MS mode, and it was very dissapointing.

The big advantage of the KM86 is in the fact all patterns have the same low end response, something you will not see with small single membrane capsules or large membrane double membrane capsules, but you pay it off with a very inconsistant polar pattern for the high frequencies.

Klaus is right, the extra grid makes it less sensitive for pop sounds, but you pay it with a more rippled frequency response, so dips and peaks. I doubt if the KM86 is less sharp than the KM84. Both are very universal microphones. Purists would probably choose for the KM84.

Schallfeldnebel

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J.J. Blair

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2010, 06:28:39 PM »

I was going to say ... without having a dual membrane, you don't get that darkness in fig 8, or the brightness and low end roll off in omni.  Makes it an attractive option in some situations for that reason.
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2010, 06:36:02 PM »

The problem with the KM86 is not the brightness on axis, it is the brightness off axis, at 90 degrees.
Look at the polar pattern, it is not dead on the side for high frequencies, which means in MS, you get a high frequency mono component into your image caused by the side microphone. Not really a good option.
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

Eric H.

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2010, 08:02:12 AM »

I recently recorded 2 chamber music concert with my km86i pair and in 2 different rooms.
I used a spaced pair in omni pattern. What I do noticed is that in the 2 cases, I needed to process the sound in M-S. The M component is very smooth and sounds great and full. The S component needed some cutting in the 2-3kHz.
Is this something normal with this model?
I found the mics to sound great on piano, but a little gritty on strings.
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eric harizanos

Schallfeldnebel

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2010, 09:43:03 AM »

I do not know why you had to process a recording made with an spaced omni pair of KM86's using MS mode. Did you use an elliptical EQ? The KM86 is simply not that useful as S microphone in MS mode. Also Bloomline probably will fail, because it will also add sharpness of axis.

The KM86 simply has no homogen polar pattern in figure of eight. At 90 degrees for the highmids and highs, basically you have hardly any damping. This causes a high mono component and the sharpness in MS mode.

A microphone alike the KM86 for classical music would be the most useable when it would have two amplifiers on board, one seperate channel for capsule. It would give you the possibilty to change the polar pattern by mixing the channels together.

Schallfeldnebel

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Eric H.

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2010, 11:33:11 AM »

Hi,
I used a omni spaced pair but at playback found that some notes got nasty harmonics and the soundfield was not homogenous enough. I eq'ed in M/S mode to cut some high mids in the Side component and rise the high end in the M component. It does the job but I am a bit disappointed with this mic's behaviour. Does the KM88 has a more constant pattern? Probably should get myself a pair of schoeps though.

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eric harizanos

DavidSpearritt

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Re: Uses for Neumann KM86?
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2010, 05:43:16 PM »

Yes, I had a KM86 for about 8 years but sold it, because I didn't like anything I used it for in classical music recording.

It was too noisy, it didn't work well as side mic in MS (imaging accuracy collapsed, and tonally weird), I didn't find it tonally accurate as a spot mic, and it was no good in a coincident main pair, due to noise, and funky off axis response.

I wanted to like it, but couldn't.
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