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Author Topic: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones  (Read 1470 times)

AusTex64

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 12:57:07 am »

I am under the impression that NP0/C0G ceramics are Class 1 MLCC's. Is that not correct?
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klaus

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 02:01:06 am »

Please rephrase the post so that it can be understood my the majority of forum users (see my post prior to yours).
Thanks, KH
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Klaus Heyne
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Kai

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 07:01:09 am »

I am under the impression that NP0/C0G ceramics are Class 1 MLCC's. Is that not correct?
NP0/C0G is a certain material, well suitet for audio because it's not causing much more distortions then the best film caps.
MLCC is a way to build a capacitor with higher capacitance by using several layers of any ceramic material.
So if you can find an MLCC made of NP0/C0G you're fine. I mentioned earlier how to verify that it's NP0/C0G.

@Klaus: you know I mostly try to use simple language, but in this topic from the headline on it's more of a technical, "DIY" thing.
Demystification of very common capacitor myths might be interesting for less technically oriented people too.
At least you get one explanation why different caps sound different.
I have learned enough going through Cyril Bateman's findings to make me curious to dig deeper.
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soapfoot

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 10:38:28 am »

Yes-- sadly, there's not a much less technical way to differentiate between the "good" ceramics (NP0/C0G/"Class 1") and the "bad" ceramics (the kind containing barium titanate, or "class 2."

MLCC stands for "multi-layer ceramic capacitor." Since ceramic caps of both types are limited to relatively small values, if you want larger values you must combine several of them into a "multi-layer" type.

I haven't personally empirically verified that MLCCs behave the same as their single, discrete ceramic counterparts.
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klaus

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 05:39:08 pm »

The last two posts prove my point that you can explain something complicated in a simple way.
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Klaus Heyne
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Jim Williams

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 12:38:27 pm »

Dielectric absorption and dissipation factors must also be included in comparisons. That's where quality film caps are superior to ceramics.

Qualitative comparisons always pick the film caps over ceramics.
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soapfoot

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2017, 11:24:41 pm »

Bateman observed very low dielectric absorption in C0G/NP0 ceramics.

Has your experience been different, Jim?
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Jim Williams

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2017, 10:58:46 am »

COG/NPO are very good but limited to very small values. I use them for ultrasonic feedback purposes as they are stable and operate above the audible hearing range.

Dissapation factors are better with quality film caps. Ceramic caps are also microphonic, tap on one to hear that.

Anyone can do the sonic evaluations easily, just wire in a COG/NPO ceramic between the capsule and jfet gate. Then replace it with a good polystyrene film cap.

Alternatively, wire one into a treble boost EQ circuit to hear what that does. Then swap it with a polystyrene or polypropylene film cap.
You will learn a lot that way.
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soapfoot

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Re: Ceramic vs Film Capacitors in Microphones
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2017, 08:37:19 am »

Interesting, Jim!

Is there a way to describe the differences one might hear?
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