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Author Topic: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously  (Read 871 times)

AusTex64

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Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« on: May 05, 2017, 09:10:20 pm »

I have a buddy that plays Paul in a very serious Beatle tribute band. This guy got a left handed Hofner bass and is learning to play left handed (he's right handed)!

Anyway, he asked for a recommendation of a dynamic mic that would be better than an SM58 for two people singing into the same mic, a la Paul and George. Embarassingly, I don't have any good suggestions. Curious to hear what you lads think.

Thank you.
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panman

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2017, 05:43:58 am »

Depending on the time they used AKG D24 a lot. That would be my recommendation.
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Esa Tervala

uwe ret

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 03:25:18 pm »

Take a look at the Sennheiser MD 421, or if the budget is an issue, the Sennheiser e835 and e935.
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AusTex64

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 12:16:25 am »

Thanks guys!
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Kai

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 12:32:17 pm »

Neumann KM104 (loud singers) or KM105 (soft singers).
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J. Mike Perkins

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 03:33:50 pm »

I assume you guys are performing live in a small to moderate sized club?  I have mixed live sound in clubs for many years and the main consideration in any live vocal mic used in a club is "gain before feedback."  A lot mics which produce great sound in a studio setting, don't work so well in a smaller club because they are so sensitive and pickup pattern pattern so wide they will start to produce feedback at lower levels compared to something like a Shure SM58 which is pretty resistant to feedback.  Most live vocal mics are cardioid pattern as this helps control feedback. Something with a wider pattern, like an omni pattern mic, seems like it might make sense on paper because it picks up a wider area, but that might cause feedback issues in a club p.a.  I've seen 2 singers successfully use the same SM58 for vocals hundreds of times and it can work just fine as long as the 2 singers get close enough to the mic.  Having one singer play left handed bass and the other one play right handed guitar helps with singing on the same mic because the guitars face opposite directions and don't get in the way.  A plain old SM58 would probably work just fine.   
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boz6906

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 11:58:00 am »

Yep, SM58 is the #1 choice for live vocals, its card pattern is just wide enough for 2 singers.  Its important that they be able to balance themselves, you can't put a shouter with a crooner.  Bluegrass bands have been getting great harmonies on one mic for years (see Del McCoury).

In any case, I'd avoid condensers for live, they feedback faster than dynamics.

And there's no question you can record a hit record with SM58s and SM57s, just ask Bono, Daniel Lanois, Andy Johns, etc.
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Kai

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 04:52:21 pm »

In any case, I'd avoid condensers for live, they feedback faster than dynamics.
This is a myth that origins from the fact that condensers are much more sensitive (=louder, more gain). If you compensate for same loudness (high quality) condensers are superior even in this area.
But those HQ ones are five times more expensive then a SM58.
In-ear monitoring is the best way to prevent feedback if this is a problem at all.
The thread starter asked for alternatives to the SM58, in my opinion these exist.
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AusTex64

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2017, 12:23:38 am »

There have been some comments from the bass player about his lips nearly touching the other singer's lips on the SM58. Evidently that kind of thing is not his bag.  :o 

The Sennheiser e835 is going to be tried next, I'm told. Looks like it has a bit wider cardioid polar pattern than the SM58.
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boz6906

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 10:22:40 am »

You might try a foam windscreen...

IME, singers 'eat the mic' because they can't hear themselves in the monitors.  Just turn them up in the wedge and they may back off.

Why 2 singers on one mic, are you out of channels?

IMHO, eating the mic adds too much bass (proximity effect gets worse the tighter the card and leads to nasty plosives).

One can have great harmonies on one mic but it requires discipline:

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/03/07/dell2-ac92966fbd50c5433fccdc955b652414f804f064-s1000-c85.jpg
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Kai

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 04:58:07 pm »

...singers 'eat the mic' because they can't hear themselves in the monitors...

...One can have great harmonies on one mic but it requires discipline:...
No pun intended, but I guess you've not often tried to sing while listening to your own voice through a monitor or a headphone.
It's a very strange experience, specially if you hear the mix of your acoustic voice combined with the monitoring signal, which, by the nature of the circumstances, always has a latency, so it doesn't mix correctly, but gives obstructive phasing effects.
If you ever try you'll find out why the vocal has to be so fat and that much louder than the music and the acoustic voice.
Only very experienced singers can work around that.

As an audio engineer you will have a hard time to educate singers doing it "your way".
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J. Mike Perkins

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 07:28:14 pm »

In addition to the standby SM58, I have also used the Sennheiser e935 and e945 live in a club with good results. Same ballpark as the SM58, but the Sennheiser e935/e945 do have slightly higher output than the SM58 which might help a little bit in your situation. However, getting the volume high enough on the monitors to hear yourself sing in a club is more a function of the singer's mic technique, the p.a. system itself, the properties of the room, and the engineer than it is which mic you use (assuming you have an SM58 or something comparable).  If it's a small club and things get loud, you will have to get close to the mic and sing directly into it to be heard.  If 2 people share the same mic, you don't have to kiss each other, but hopefully the other person's breath does not smell too bad! The nightmare situation for the sound engineer in a club is a timid singer who avoids getting close to the mic or who does not sing directly into it because you can't get the vocal volume loud enough to be heard without causing feedback.  No mic I know of will fix that problem.   
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boz6906

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Re: Dynamic mic for two singers simultaneously
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2017, 07:36:34 pm »

Yeah well...

No complaints so far.

IME, monitor engineers often carve out 125Hz down in the wedges, especially if its being recorded.

And back to the OP's question about 2 singers on 1 mic, my 40 years experience informs my opinion that its all about the singers' balance with one another.

Paul and John's superb harmonies were a result of great singing and good mic technique.  Check out the cover of 'Mix' Jan 2017, neither are touching the mic, much less each other.
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