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Author Topic: Telefunken/Schoeps m221  (Read 3544 times)

Noah Scot Snyder

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Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« on: June 09, 2016, 01:04:21 pm »

My name is Noah Scot Snyder. I am a film scoring mixer in Los Angeles. I recently purchased two Telefunken/Schoeps m221b microphones from Madooma in Dortmund that came with CM9b capsules. I cannot find any information on these capsules at all. I contacted Bernhard Vollmer at Schoeps and he says he doesnít know what they are but that the thinks they are NOT m221 capsules and most likely capsules from a m201 (I think they are not m221b capsules and predate them but not as far back as the m201). I canít find mention anywhere of CM9b, CM9a or CM934a (which I know exist and threads to a m221a). Any information anyone might have would be greatly appreciated. The mics were listed in the sale as m221b but I think they are in fact m221 (made before the a/b/f distinction). I'm most interested in determining precisely what model m221 these are and what the lineage of the CM9b is (is it a precursor to the mk22?) Thank you.
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panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2016, 07:09:02 pm »

Hi Noah, like you said, there is no information to be found about those capsules. However I have a capsule like that, which is marked to be M155/2(there is a M155/1 too). It is omni and the same as MK22, but the thread only fits to the Telefunken M155 body. M155 was exclusively only made for Telefunken. I do not have any numbers of how many were made, but my M155 has the nr. 1467. M155 also has AC 701 tube, but the schematics are somewhat different.

But the problem here is, that your mics look like M221(the model before a/b/f, that was only made a short while). There should be M221 marked on them plus the serial numbers. My estimation is that c. 400 were ever made, because all serial numbers I have ever seen wheather live or in pics have been much below that(ok, I have seen about 10-15 only, so maybe I am wrong). So, please check that out and let us know, because the capsules in your pics do not fit to a M221 body.
Further more, please post a pic from the mic with the capsule removed, but showing the capsule end, that I am able to tell if it is M221 or M155 or something else again. Usually they are marked though. Pics from the innards would also clear a lot of things out.
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Esa Tervala

Noah Scot Snyder

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 03:26:53 pm »

  Thank you Esa! These mics continue to be a journey of discovery. The sale listing indicated m221b but is is not m221b threading. The serial number is also enigmatic. One of the two bodies says "Nr. 1002" the other says nothing. There is no indication of model.
  I've attached some more pics including gut shots. It is definitely a AC701 but that's about all I can tell from inside. I also should mention I was able to obtain 2 more CM9b capsules so I have a total of 4 which are now being evaluated by a tech here in LA. I should also note that the mics look exactly like the m221 pictured on the product history section of the Schoeps website, which is part of the reason I guessed a m221 as the model. Thank you very much for your help and thoughts!

http://www.schoeps.de/en/history_products
(then click on 1954)

The guts seem to match this photo:
http://www.mikrofonbau.de/m221_e.htm
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Noah Scot Snyder

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 03:27:31 pm »

More pics...
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Noah Scot Snyder

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 03:28:03 pm »

...
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Noah Scot Snyder

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 03:28:36 pm »

and finally.
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panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 05:20:28 pm »

Ok, it`s very clear now: your pics from the guts show a M155 and definitely not a M221. The first link(http://www.schoeps.de/en/history_products) shows a Telefunken M155 and not M221 or M221A. The second link from the guts(http://www.mikrofonbau.de/m221_e.htm) also shows a M155 and notr M221 as it claims. The M934a capsule must be photoshopped on it, because M934a does not fit onto the M155 body. The thread-diameter of M155 is larger than that of a M221. The link also says both M221 and M155 have the same dimentions, but even that is not true, because M221 is considerably shorter than M155 and M221b. Never had a M221a in front of me, so I do not know about that, but I do have M155, M221 and M221b. Your mics are from an earlier badge and that`s why(I assume) the body looks the same as m221, but it is longer like M221b. My M155 does not have that Telefunken logo-ring but the logo etched. Mine is also clearly marked as M155.
The pic shows M221 above, M155 in the middle and M221 below.
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Esa Tervala

panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2016, 05:22:39 pm »

Same from the other side.
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Esa Tervala

panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 05:26:41 pm »

Here the tubes:
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Esa Tervala

panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 05:30:19 pm »

The threads: left M221, middle M155, right M221b. The differend thread sizes of M221 and M155 are clearly visible.

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Esa Tervala

panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 05:43:46 pm »

M155 schematics redrawn and modified from M221b schematics. No idea what number 16 is.
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Esa Tervala

panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 05:59:43 pm »

M221 schematics redrawn and modified from M221b schematics. Sorry for the stupid formats! You need to open the files to enlarge them. I somehow failed to convert them properly.
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Esa Tervala

Noah Scot Snyder

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2016, 06:26:16 pm »

Wow! Thank you for all that information and the schematics. I'd bet some of these changes between models came incrementally, meaning there are some obscure configurations. From your photos it certainly seems that the guts are of a m155. I think it's funny that those are pictured on the Schoeps site as examples of the m221, but I suppose they are all very closely related. It seems however that the threading on mine is the 221a type. The CM9b fits mine, at any rate, and I've found a CM934a so I'll be able to try that out soon. Perhaps the 934a on the m155 in the Schoeps photo was a CR3/1, I found the following photos from an old m155 sale on eBay.de. The secrets of these mics are slowly revealing themselves. They sound absolutely amazing on orchestra.
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panman

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2016, 08:03:27 pm »

If you have found a CM934a, it may well be that it fits your M155, but there are many Schoeps CM-capsules, that do not fit any of these M-mics. However what I have is a M934a. I guess that indicates another thread, but I am just guessing. The capsule on the link is clearly a 934a, but because the mic is a M155, it may be CM934a. I guess we`ll find out, when you get your CM934a and have tried out if it fits. The gut-pic on the link before is not showing a CR3/1, because it(CR3/1) does not have the cardioid-omni switch-ring, but the ring is clearly visible in the link. Just take a better look at the pics and you`ll see the difference. Again, I am just guessing, but I believe, that a CR3/1 in the pic is the same as the M155/3(cardioid) mentioned in the same link with the gut-pic.
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Esa Tervala

Noah Scot Snyder

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Re: Telefunken/Schoeps m221
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 08:24:14 pm »

Again, thanks very much for your input. Indeed it is M934a capsule on its way to me and it sounds like you are saying that it will not fit. That's too bad as I was unaware of the two sizes of the 155/221 threadings. I just would like to have a couple cardioid capsules to compliment the omnis. Luckily these capsules are in such low demand that they sell for significantly less than new Schoeps capsules when you can find them. I guess I may end up with one to sell. I'm lucky to have gotten the two extra CM9b capsules and I'll keep a look out for others.
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