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[Diminished Triad]

Anyone have experience or an opinion regarding this digital mixing board?
Thanks so much!  Mike

[Diminished Triad]

Is there one digital mixing board intended/great for live sound that most agree upon?  I need to replace my 32 channel Mackie analog board very soon.   Thanks so much!

[Tim Halligan]

Depending on what you actually need, they are all great.

You'll find there are differences in connectivity, user interface, expandability, remote control, plug-ins/effects - both on-board and third party, and personal monitoring for starters.

If you want a mixer that everyone - or at least a very large number of professional users - agrees on, then you will have to look at consoles that meet touring riders...and that means money.

Lots of it.

The downside of that is that the consoles that are rider-acceptable are not just a drop-in replacement for your Mackie...there will be a substantial learning curve.

Conversely, you can get what is essentially a drop-in replacement for your existing set up, but it won't be rider-acceptable. But it will be affordable.

HTH

Cheers,
Tim

[Diminished Triad]

Thanks Tim!  For the sake of it, what would be maybe 3 models that would be rider acceptable?  Any chance Soundcraft would make the cut or are they all Yamaha and above?  Thanks again..Mike

[Tim Halligan]

Most touring engineers these days will probably have show files for a few consoles, and the reason many would spec a particular brand or channel count would be to make sure some unscrupulous promoter or venue doesn't try and stiff them with a no-name console, or an inferior digital or analogue rig, rather than actually needing all of the capabilities of the specced desk.

If there is something unique required, they would probably carry it with them.

There are still many riders that say "No Behringer" despite the success of the X32 family.

In terms of what would be on the acceptable list, it would vary from engineer to engineer, and what the requirements of the show were, but certainly Avid Profile would be one, and probably the Profile SC48 would be an acceptable substitute.

Depending on the gig, a Yammy M7 might still be on the list, so too the PM5D.

The Soundcraft VI series might get on there.

Midas would make an appearance on the list...probably Pro 2 or 2C and up. Or possibly an H3000 would be listed as an acceptable analogue substitute, as long as you had decent outboard to go with it.

Mike, are you having to meet riders? If so, you may want to start hanging out over at the live sound side of PSW. That will give you a much better idea.

Cheers,
Tim

[jaykadis]

I just ordered a Midas M32 - a good way to get around the "no Behringer" rule. It's the same software as the X32 (or very similar) but has Midas hardware that should prove more road-worthy. The comparable Yamahas are significantly more expensive but probably worth the money if you have it. We've been using our DM-1000s for live work and they're just not user friendly enough for that.

[Tim Halligan]

I just ordered a Midas M32 - a good way to get around the "no Behringer" rule.

I'm very likely to do the same for a particular upcoming project...but I don't have to meet riders, and I'll be the only operator, so the "wolf in sheep's clothing" issue doesn't matter.

Cheers,
Tim

[Diminished Triad]

Around here I've been told "no Beringer" although rarely have to deal with such riders.  Of course when dealing with promoters and large venues and they ask about our equipment it helps if we have a board they recognize and respect.  I accompanied a band to Japan and worked a Yamaha digital board and it was great.  While I don't remember the model number, I clearly remember it had a "7" ...maybe an "M" and when I returned home I went straight to the internet and found it listed for between 17k and 24k (online).   Out of my budget but definitely want a board that those I work with will respect.  The few acts I've dealt with flying in from off-island have either brought their stuff or been pretty cool about the equipment I've used.  Of course, not every entertainer/band is going to be as nice as Yvonne Elliman.  She has a rider but when it comes down to it if you deliver on your side and have things set up and working well she does not ever bring up the rider.  I know I will not be as fortunate with other bands/singers to come.  Thanks for all the great advice.  And I will go look for the live production side of the forum too.  Thanks again... Mike

[Diminished Triad]

Where is the live sound of SPW located?
I searched a few blogs/categorie but could no find.
Thanks for any info you can share!  Mike

[Tim Halligan]

Here ya go: http://forums.prosoundweb.com

Note...you will have to register with your real name, otherwise you'll get booted out.

Back to your console question...if you are getting artist riders - what are they asking for?

If there's a particular console that is listed more than others...that's what you should be looking at. Nobody says you have to buy new...

HTH

Cheers,
Tim

[Fletcher]

Gotta say guys... this has been a fun thread to read [I've been out of worrying about "incoming riders" for more than a couple decades].

I will add that if you're talking about a "fixed venue system", like you'd find in a bar... "technical riders" are purely suggestions [vis á vis consoles / FOH / Monitor hardware].  If a band is "serious" about their technical specifications being met EVERY night... then they'll carry the requisite hardware and interface with the venue's wiring [that part I haven't been out of very long... and have a dear friend / poker buddy who has been an "upper level barroom" production manager for well over 30 years].

Peace

[Jim Williams]

I'm interested in how digital mixers have done in replacing analog live consoles.

Given the problems I've experienced in using a laptop to record a live show and all the PC problems I have had over the years (usually requiring a power down and boot-up), are these mixers now "processor proof" or do venues with these all digital consoles experience codeing problems, data losses or shut-downs/lockups?

I can imagine the man behind the curtain saying to an angry crowd, "give us a couple of minutes to boot up the system and the show will continue", while dodging thrown objects.

[Tim Halligan]

These days, the big boy consoles are pretty reliable.

Do digital ever consoles fail? Sure...on occasion, but a reboot may be all that is required.

When analogue consoles fail, it's usually a show stopper because it will be something critical like a power supply...unless you are into the big league stuff which have redundant PSUs.

In terms of replacing analogue...it's not just a console you are replacing, but often a massive outboard rack of gates, comps, 'verbs, delays, and graphic eq's.

Promoters - especially for theatre - love digital because of far fewer seat kills.

Add in the flexibility of offline console setup/show design, and relative bang for buck...the numbers are hard to ignore.

Cheers,
Tim

[jaykadis]

We've been using Yamaha DM-1000 and DM-2000 mixers for almost 10 years now and haven't had one lock-up or other issue on any of them (I hope I don't now regret saying this.) Not so for the Tascam DM series mixers we used previously, though to be fair most of our problems were with their failing power supplies.


The new concert hall here decided on Yamaha CL-series boards and they've been totally reliable so far.