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Author Topic: DIY desk - angles  (Read 8633 times)

JonasB

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DIY desk - angles
« on: January 29, 2012, 10:40:04 am »

Hi,

I am planning to build an angled DIY-desk inspired by the Sterling Modular Plan D or the Argosy Dual 15 with my monitors on stands behind the table. It will be used for production and mixing - no mastering.

In the mastering forum archive Thomas@Northward wrote:
Quote
All closed or semi-closed boxes (rack furniture) will resonate. So the more and wider the openings, the better. If you open only the back for ex, you'll likely make it better, but there will still be a resonance, albeit a lower one in freq. Also, it doesn't mean that without the back the furniture won't interact with the front wall anymore. It really is a case to case thing.

When it comes to the "table top" reflections, well... nothing you can do about that really. Of course, angling the work surface is good, but if you angle too much then the back part of the work surface will create just as much trouble.

I just try to keep it simple, small, and light.

Avoid metal structures also, they can be nasty sources of parasite vibrations.

Furniture is a bit like the floor effect. There isn't much you can do to kill it completely, but a few things you can do to tame it all nicely.

Now, I'm not to worried when it comes to mastering furniture. An old large frame NEVE, now that spells *trouble*.



The sterling desk features a work surface angled about 15 degrees offering 12 RU, but i only need 8 RU. Therefore, i thought about building my work surface shorter, but with a steeper angle of 20 degrees, because i'm forced to have my speakers pretty close to the desk and i'd like to have as little reflections as possible. With an angle of 20 degrees the upper end/corner of my work surface would be just as high as the sterling one (about 15cm above the table surface).


Would it ok to have an 8 RU work surface angled 20 degrees (or even steeper) or is it preferable to go for 15 degrees, even if i only need 8 RU?

And will i get problems, if the angle at the back of the work surface racks is 90 degrees and not angled towards the ceiling (if i go for the 20(+) degrees angle)?

Thanks in advance!  :)

Jonas
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boggy

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Re: DIY desk - angles
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 04:08:05 pm »

Hello Jonas,

Desks always cause reflections, and the biggest problem with them is when they have to be used :)


There are only two possible ways of avoiding desk reflections:
1. Placing loudspeakers farther behind the desk (2-5m), so the relative path difference between direct sound and reflected sound becomes smaller and less obtrusive.
2. Eliminating the desk from the studio. (I'm not joking)


A compromise that I used occasionally is to split the desk into two halves, and place it to the listenerís left and right side, so this way he has not front reflection surface, and all reflections come from the left and right sides, where he is not that sensitive, and reflections aren't that intensive.
If you have to keep your speakers close to your desk, there is no way of avoiding the desk reflections with different angle. If you are unsure, place a mirror on desk surface and try to find that "special angle" where you can't see your loudspeakers image in the mirror... :)
I think that splitting your desk into two halves may help you.


The second compromise may be to sit closer to the floor, and to have the desk lower, I mean desk surface that is closer to the floor...  so the reflections from it will be more similar to the reflections from floor.
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JonasB

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Re: DIY desk - angles
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 04:55:13 pm »

Hello Boggy,

Thank you very much for your answer and your suggestions.

I know that i can't get rid of reflections, especially as i'm not able to place my monitors so far away from the table. Nonetheless i need a table as the desk will be not only used to place my outboard, but also my production gear (keyboard, etc.). Therefore splitting the table won't work and is not an option for me.

I know that having a table is a compromise between having an ergonomic setup and causing acoustical problems. Because of that, i want to build the table as small as possible and i'd like to know how steep i can angle 8RU-racks in a sterling style table without making the situation worse, given a close speaker situation and an 90 degrees angle at the back of the work surface/rack.
 
Speakers are Focal Twins on stands and the setup behind the table will look like this:








I'd love to move the speakers further back, but currently it isn't possible.

Jonas
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boggy

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Re: DIY desk - angles
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2012, 06:51:51 pm »

Hello Boggy,

Thank you very much for your answer and your suggestions.

I know that i can't get rid of reflections, especially as i'm not able to place my monitors so far away from the table. Nonetheless i need a table as the desk will be not only used to place my outboard, but also my production gear (keyboard, etc.). Therefore splitting the table won't work and is not an option for me.

I know that having a table is a compromise between having an ergonomic setup and causing acoustical problems. Because of that, i want to build the table as small as possible and i'd like to know how steep i can angle 8RU-racks in a sterling style table without making the situation worse, given a close speaker situation and an 90 degrees angle at the back of the work surface/rack.
 

Try to put large working surfaces to your sides, left and right, not in front of you (as shown at images you attached)
At first (your) image you can see two big angled racks that is moved to left side and back from listener.... so... imagine that this two racks you may have at your sides, left and right... that way it is compromise where is 1:1 in ergonomy vs. sound.
 

Speakers are Focal Twins on stands and the setup behind the table will look like this:











From my experience, all setups, shown above, will have strong and audible comb filtering because reflections from working surface.
They looks nice for sure... but thy still not sound as best as it may be possible. (1:0 for ergonomy vs. sound)


 

I'd love to move the speakers further back, but currently it isn't possible.


I know what is your problem.


Second, a way to escape diffractions because LCD (TFT, LED) monitor (second audible problem) is to use a big LCD TV instad of computer monitor in the same plane with loudspeakers. This way you don't need a big front working surface, so you need only small space for your keyboard and mouse (trackball). Something similar you can see at your third image.


Some way of setup I suggest you, looks like this







sorry, this studio isn't yet finished, so, for sure, it's not looking that nice as your images, but you may be sure that this studio, shown at my image, doesn't have audible comb filtering from "working surface" nor diffraction from LCD (TFT, LED) monitor.
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JonasB

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Re: DIY desk - angles
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2012, 03:00:33 pm »

Hi Boggy,

thanks again for the extensive input! Especially having a large LCD-TV in line with the speakers might be a good option.

The idea of not having a desk sounds perfect in terms of having the best acoustic possible, but this solution does not suit the production/mixing-environment i'm aiming for. Just like most people i simply do need a table and working sideways always felt odd and uncomfortable to me.

I know that having a table infront of me, means having some reflections on the downside. But having a angled table will be much better than my current situation. Therefore i will go for a table and i will angle it to make the best out of the situation.

Please don't get me wrong, as i do not want to be the guy asking for help and ignoring the good advice he's given. I'm very thankful for your time and effort and maybe i should have made it even more clear, that i already have decided to build the desk.

When i'm rebuilding my studio, i'm definitely going for a larger speaker distance and the table will be less an issue.

Given the fact that i will build a desk, i'd love to hear your input on my original 8RU/20 degrees dilemma. I played around with some angles (15, 20, 25, 30) and checked the reflections from the tweeter. 20 degrees seem to be the best solution for me, as it already helps (a little) while having the speakers at a short distance, but even better, when i can go for a larger distance. At the same time the upper end of the rack/work surface is not too high to be in the way and the back of the racks doesn't become to dominant. Therefore i figured that 20 degrees might be the best solution for me..
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boggy

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Re: DIY desk - angles
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2012, 03:48:54 pm »

Hi Boggy,

thanks again for the extensive input! Especially having a large LCD-TV in line with the speakers might be a good option.

You're welcome.  :)

Given the fact that i will build a desk, i'd love to hear your input on my original 8RU/20 degrees dilemma. I played around with some angles (15, 20, 25, 30) and checked the reflections from the tweeter. 20 degrees seem to be the best solution for me, as it already helps (a little) while having the speakers at a short distance, but even better, when i can go for a larger distance. At the same time the upper end of the rack/work surface is not too high to be in the way and the back of the racks doesn't become to dominant. Therefore i figured that 20 degrees might be the best solution for me..
If you must build angled table/rack between you and your loudspeakers... so you may use simple piece of OSB or MDF, with size similar to your future desk, and keyboard stand, or something similar. You can change height and angle of this (tentative) "desk" and you can do acoustical measurements, so following this way, you can choose something that is acceptable. There may be a some help from a vertical polar radiation pattern of loudspeaker, that may be found with measurement only, but this is only a guess.
If I forced to build that type of desk, I will possibly give a greater emphasis to better ergonomy and look...  ;)
Good luck!  :)
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JonasB

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Re: DIY desk - angles
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 08:13:14 pm »

If I forced to build that type of desk, I will possibly give a greater emphasis to better ergonomy and look...  ;)
Good luck!  :)

At least you gave your very best to convince me to scrap the desk..  ;)

Thanks again for your advice! This has been a great start in this forum!

Maybe somebody else wants to chime in too?
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khushfehmi045

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Re: DIY desk - angles
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2015, 03:51:23 am »

I'd like to know how steep i can angle 8RU-racks in a sterling style table without making the situation worse, given a close speaker situation and an 90 degrees angle at the back of the work surface/rack.?
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