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Author Topic: Health care - the need for reformation (was Roger Nichols)  (Read 11516 times)

mazoaudio

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Health care - the need for reformation (was Roger Nichols)
« on: January 21, 2011, 02:15:16 pm »

jrmintz wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 11:38

I don't think it's overtly political to say that all Americans ought to have access to health care resembling that which our congressional representatives, of all parties and ideologies, and in a rare display of unity, have given themselves. It's also not political to say that it's unconscionable that the family of a person who has had a career like Roger Nichols, or any family for that matter, should have to impoverish itself to keep a family member alive. It's a moral issue out of which some people have created a political one.

I donated as well.


+1

Denouncing the reasonable critic of the effects of certain policies as "political" is one of the ways the unjust policies are perpetuated.  (i.e. Arizona shootings)

The  ways folks try to rationalize this class war is a joke.  I have donated to Roger, who is obviously a cool guy and someone who has furthered the science of recording.
It's just says really sad things about our country when people who have been pushed down from the middle class are called upon to help fix situations like this
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Lance Ketterer

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jimmyjazz

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 02:45:28 pm »

I think it's really sad that a disease as common as cancer can decimate the finances of a family which should, by distant observation, be financially sound.  If true, what it means is that only the top few percent can afford anything but the most ordinary "life-saving" efforts, and that is sad.

I am very glad I carry a cancer policy on my family.  Moreover, I'm glad I can afford it.  My father died a couple of years ago from cancer, but the incurred costs were largely carried by insurance and Medicare.  His cancer was uncureable, though -- aggressive brain tumor at age 87 -- so I doubt our experience is all that relevant.  If we had tried to fight it for a few years, I'm sure we would have been in the same boat, and that is mortifying.

Sorry for the continued thread-jack, but I'm with William on this one.
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YZ

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Our Help
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2011, 12:54:44 am »

A productive member of society and an expert at his profession, open to share his experiences with his fellows.

While not a multimillionaire, a well-paid individual and I doubt that anyone with a clear mind will say that he did not work for every penny of it and did not do it honestly.

Goes broke and takes his family's savings with him to treat a disease.

Something's wrong.

He's not lazy, he is not destitute of friends and relationships at 'high places'.

Over the years I've been a member here at PSW, I've seen a few calls for help like the OP; this is a crying shame, good people and good hardworking professionals not being able to pay for their treatment.

Have they not saved enough? Did they all burn all their income in futile stuff? How much of a person's income should be set aside for the possibility of a costly illness? And what if that income is not that high and one has to choose between feeding and clothing the kids and saving for the possibility of such an illness?
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regards,

YZ

Extreme Mixing

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Our Help
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 01:29:42 am »

Yes, I too feel that what is happening to Roger is wrong.  This is exactly the reason that we need a required participation system of national health insurance.  Even a 20 year old can get cancer, or find himself in a terrible car accident and need treatment.  Since all share that risk, all should pay into a health care program.

Someone mentioned Social Security.  Not a day goes by without some politician mentioning that SS will be broke before many of get any of our benefits.  But at the same time we pay public employees 70-90% of their highest pay rate, and GIVE them free medical care for life.  We let them negotiate their own deal!  There is no way that most of us "working stiffs" will let Social Security go down, and continue to pay taxes to support teachers, and DMV retirees who didn't even pay into their plan.  So even if the system keeps working, I'll get like 22K per year while a DMV worker will get 60K per year and free health care for life.  That's not fair in my book.

I truly wish Roger the best.

Steve

YZ

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Our Help
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 02:42:29 am »

Yes.

Mods, I know I'm veering off-topic here, but...

Why should politicians have access - paid by taxpayers - to a health system unattainable to the common man? Isn't this a Democracy? Aren't we in a Capitalist society? Why elected individuals have more rights - and for life - than the people who voted for them? Why would any politician work for the good of all if he has already gotten such a good deal for himself and his family? Why should a citizen in the boondocks with no health care of any sort be paying for a senator's lavish benefits?

/rant off/

I hope Roger recovers - in all aspects.
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YZ

Fenris Wulf

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 06:08:39 am »

wwittman wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 16:40


If thinking that financial luck should not determine whether a colleague gets to have a shot at living is "political mudslinging" then I shall continue to be "out of place"

Where I come from educated  people disagree about many things, but not that people should die because their parents aren't rich or they lost their job, etc.

Funny how almost everywhere else in the civilized western world think that's " the kind of society they want to live in"
Government financing destroys free-market incentives and makes goods and services MORE expensive than they would be in the absence of subsidies. This is a basic law of economics and it cannot be altered by good intentions. U.S. health care has been heavily subsidized for decades, and that is the root cause of spiraling costs.

There is a deep cultural divide between Europeans and Americans. Europeans place a higher value on equality, while Americans place a higher value on liberty. Europeans think of themselves as subjects, while Americans think of themselves as citizens. Europeans look for collectivist, government-based solutions to life's problems, while Americans look for individualist solutions to the same problems.

I seem to recall that my country fought a war with your country over these differences, and won the right to devise our own system of government.

You should learn something about America's culture, before you slander half its population and attribute their beliefs to stupidity and malice.
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FFoster

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 06:39:58 am »

Silvertone wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 07:16

zmix wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 23:10

Thanks for posting this, David.  I had heard from a friend of his that he was diagnosed with cancer...I didn't realize it was  Pancreatic cancer. That  is extremely tough.  It's also a very sad commentary on the US that serious health problems cause so many people to go bankrupt...

 


So sad to hear.

That's the same cancer that took my Mom down... that and it broke her heart that she and my Dad lost everything they worked their whole lives for just to keep her alive for 6 months in the end...  it's just not right and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.

THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE ASHAMED THE WAY THEY LET INSURANCE COMPANIES DICTATE OUR HEATH CARE.  FOR SHAME AMERICA!

I'll say prayers for Roger.

Yes, lets have the government run health care so it can be inaccessible to everybody.
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YZ

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 07:08:15 am »

FFoster wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 09:39


Yes, lets have the government run health care so it can be inaccessible to everybody.


That does not seem to be the case in several countries where there is a government-run health care structure.

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YZ

KB_S1

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2011, 07:24:27 am »

FFoster wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 11:39


Yes, lets have the government run health care so it can be inaccessible to everybody.


Have any examples you can cite to back this up?
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Silvertone

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2011, 08:39:40 am »

FFoster wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 05:39

Silvertone wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 07:16

zmix wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 23:10

Thanks for posting this, David.  I had heard from a friend of his that he was diagnosed with cancer...I didn't realize it was  Pancreatic cancer. That  is extremely tough.  It's also a very sad commentary on the US that serious health problems cause so many people to go bankrupt...

 


So sad to hear.

That's the same cancer that took my Mom down... that and it broke her heart that she and my Dad lost everything they worked their whole lives for just to keep her alive for 6 months in the end...  it's just not right and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.

THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE ASHAMED THE WAY THEY LET INSURANCE COMPANIES DICTATE OUR HEATH CARE.  FOR SHAME AMERICA!

I'll say prayers for Roger.

Yes, lets have the government run health care so it can be inaccessible to everybody.



Give me a break, everybody on medicare and medicaid gets to see a doctor before I do.  I pay 1000.00 a month for my wife and my health insurance... through my taxes I also pay for the government official, the policeman, the fireman, the school teacher and many other... so who's helping me out??? Nobody, that's who and if I get a catastrophic disease then what I pay doesn't cover it... give me a break.

Obviously you don't pay for your health insurance or, trust me you would feel differently.  18% increase in coverage last year, 17% this year... wake up everybody,  you may pay a little of your health insurance now but in the not to distant future YOU WILL BE PAYING A LOT MORE!  A LOT MORE!

THE INSURANCE COMPANIES RUN HEALTH CARE IN THIS COUNTRY.... WAKE UP EVERYBODY... YOU ARE PAYING THE PROTECTION RACKET... THESE GUYS ARE WORSE THAN THE MOB!  Thanks Hillary!

I want the same health care as my elected official... they seem to get into the doctors right away and get to stay in the hospital as long as it takes. Why not me?

As for Roger, I donated and had others donate yesterday as well... but what kind of country do we live in when a man like this has to rely on handouts to have decant care in his remaining days... I'll say it again... for shame America!

Sorry for getting political Brad but this is "politics at it's best" (worst really)... and we can't talk about the elephant in the room.

Shortly it looks like I'll be canceling my health policy because I can no longer afford it... then our government will be sending me to jail for not having health insurance (that's rich)... again the insurance companies win! Well then at least I'd get to live for free AND get FREE HEALTH CARE... imagine that, criminals get their health care paid for by us as well. Now who are the real criminals here?

It's also been proven that universal health care will lower health care costs in this country... but do you think that is what the insurance companies really want?  

Wakey, wakey, eggs and Bakey... everybody, eyes open...
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Silvertone

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2011, 09:06:31 am »

Fenris Wulf wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 05:08

wwittman wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 16:40


If thinking that financial luck should not determine whether a colleague gets to have a shot at living is "political mudslinging" then I shall continue to be "out of place"

Where I come from educated  people disagree about many things, but not that people should die because their parents aren't rich or they lost their job, etc.

Funny how almost everywhere else in the civilized western world think that's " the kind of society they want to live in"
Government financing destroys free-market incentives and makes goods and services MORE expensive than they would be in the absence of subsidies. This is a basic law of economics and it cannot be altered by good intentions. U.S. health care has been heavily subsidized for decades, and that is the root cause of spiraling costs.

There is a deep cultural divide between Europeans and Americans. Europeans place a higher value on equality, while Americans place a higher value on liberty. Europeans think of themselves as subjects, while Americans think of themselves as citizens. Europeans look for collectivist, government-based solutions to life's problems, while Americans look for individualist solutions to the same problems.

I seem to recall that my country fought a war with your country over these differences, and won the right to devise our own system of government.

You should learn something about America's culture, before you slander half its population and attribute their beliefs to stupidity and malice.



Health care shouldn't be a free market item... everybody will get sick, everybody will die...  So lets profit from this and while were at it, take everything everybody worked their lives for??? This is evil at it's finest... profit on someones misery...

Now I'm only guessing here but I'd say you haven't been through being financially wiped out by health care cost (I was in my early 30's when it happen to me and have been digging out ever since). You don't fear loosing your health care because you can't afford a "mortgage payment" for your cost every month. I do, it's a real fear... every month.  I pay 1K a month for basic coverage with high deductible and co-pays.  You don't pay the 18% increases every year in health care cost. Well, you do, you just don't know it.  But trust me dude, you will someday... just keep letting insurance companies run health care in this country!

This is a touchy subject for me and I won't be polite about it anymore.  I'll scream at the top of my lungs until EVERYBODY wakes up!
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Larry DeVivo
Silvertone Mastering, Inc.
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To see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/  (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

Fenris Wulf

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Re: Health care - the need for reformation (was Roger Nichols)
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2011, 09:20:18 am »

American health care has not been a free market since the 1940's. The current system, in which health care is exorbitantly expensive and everything is done through insurance companies, is a product of government financing and government regulation.

The health care system is ALREADY partially socialized and that is the problem. Once again, the politicians have managed to shift the blame for their own incompetence onto the "free market."

Despite the Left's stranglehold on higher education and the traditional media, many Americans have caught on to the fact that socialized medicine is inherently coercive toward patients and doctors alike, there is no such thing as "free," and the government is NOT omnipotent and does NOT have the ability to provide perfect health care to everyone in perpetuity.

The American people decisively rejected socialized medicine in the recent election. Perhaps you've been living in a cave and didn't hear about it.
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Eric H.

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Re: Roger Nichols Fighting For His Life, Needs Your Help
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 09:59:41 am »

Silvertone wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 13:39

FFoster wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 05:39

Silvertone wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 07:16

zmix wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 23:10

Thanks for posting this, David.  I had heard from a friend of his that he was diagnosed with cancer...I didn't realize it was  Pancreatic cancer. That  is extremely tough.  It's also a very sad commentary on the US that serious health problems cause so many people to go bankrupt...

 


So sad to hear.

That's the same cancer that took my Mom down... that and it broke her heart that she and my Dad lost everything they worked their whole lives for just to keep her alive for 6 months in the end...  it's just not right and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.

THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE ASHAMED THE WAY THEY LET INSURANCE COMPANIES DICTATE OUR HEATH CARE.  FOR SHAME AMERICA!

I'll say prayers for Roger.

Yes, lets have the government run health care so it can be inaccessible to everybody.



Give me a break, everybody on medicare and medicaid gets to see a doctor before I do.  I pay 1000.00 a month for my wife and my health insurance... through my taxes I also pay for the government official, the policeman, the fireman, the school teacher and many other... so who's helping me out??? Nobody, that's who and if I get a catastrophic disease then what I pay doesn't cover it... give me a break.

Obviously you don't pay for your health insurance or, trust me you would feel differently.  18% increase in coverage last year, 17% this year... wake up everybody,  you may pay a little of your health insurance now but in the not to distant future YOU WILL BE PAYING A LOT MORE!  A LOT MORE!

THE INSURANCE COMPANIES RUN HEALTH CARE IN THIS COUNTRY.... WAKE UP EVERYBODY... YOU ARE PAYING THE PROTECTION RACKET... THESE GUYS ARE WORSE THAN THE MOB!  Thanks Hillary!

I want the same health care as my elected official... they seem to get into the doctors right away and get to stay in the hospital as long as it takes. Why not me?

As for Roger, I donated and had others donate yesterday as well... but what kind of country do we live in when a man like this has to rely on handouts to have decant care in his remaining days... I'll say it again... for shame America!

Sorry for getting political Brad but this is "politics at it's best" (worst really)... and we can't talk about the elephant in the room.

Shortly it looks like I'll be canceling my health policy because I can no longer afford it... then our government will be sending me to jail for not having health insurance (that's rich)... again the insurance companies win! Well then at least I'd get to live for free AND get FREE HEALTH CARE... imagine that, criminals get their health care paid for by us as well. Now who are the real criminals here?

It's also been proven that universal health care will lower health care costs in this country... but do you think that is what the insurance companies really want?  

Wakey, wakey, eggs and Bakey... everybody, eyes open...

I'm not american, but where I live, I see to a much lesser degree some 'good ideas' being implemented, year after year, to 'save' the social security system, modeled after america's health care system, which obviously doesn't work, except for millionaires.
In the meanwhile, there is no questions asked to 'save' a bank and putting in 4 or 5 billion euros of public money.

Whenever I hear a politician saying we need to cut benefits to 'save' our social system, I say : BULLSHIT!
I say sell that nuclear submarine and put the money where people need it.
I totally agree with a lot of what's being said here, and to see so many people go bankrupt for health problems in the first world really makes you wonder.

This is not left/right problem. It is an up/down problem.
We need laws that instate health protection of all citizens as a fondamental right, as fondamental as territorial protection and freedom rights.

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eric harizanos

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Re: Health care - the need for reformation (was Roger Nichols)
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2011, 11:24:43 am »

There's got to be some kind of 1/2 way solution between what Canada and The USA have. I've lived in both countries for some time, and in Canada, Non Emergency, to Partial emergency care, completely stinks. A trip to the emergency room in alot of cities could be a 5 - 10 hour wait for everyone, who is treated, or seen in a "Critical need of assistance order"

In Nashville, when I broke my hand, I got in, within 15 minutes to see a doctor.

However, on the side of major operations, procedures, terminal illness care etc... My father lived his final days out in Canada. He had Prostate cancer, and then cancer in his neck which eventually took his life.

During that long period of time, he received the same procedures, operations, Chemo and Radiation treatments, in cutting edge facilities, by doctors at the top of their field, it kept him alive an additional 4 years, and during that time, his humble blue collar "Jobbing Musician" life, and financial status, was never compromised, or at risk, and I am thankful for that.

4 years of the most expensive medical care and procedures, cost nothing.

Again, doctors leave Canada, as do health care professionals, as they make up to 10x the wages in the USA, so we're lucky to have the specialists we have, and there are much fewer per city, and longer waiting lists. If the Canadian Government would spend more on Wages for health care professionals... it might be the "Middle ground" we're talking about.

I live in the USA now, and it's always a scary thing, in the back of my mind... If I get sick... really sick, I'll have to pack up shop, and head up to Canada.

For now, seeing as we can't solve the worlds problems today. Lets all help each other out when we can. Send money, support, and thoughts to Roger, and anyone else that needs it when you can.
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David

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Re: Health care - the need for reformation (was Roger Nichols)
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2011, 11:49:44 am »

Fenris Wulf wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 06:20

The current system, in which health care is exorbitantly expensive and everything is done through insurance companies, is a product of government financing and government regulation.
The current system is so expensive because profits are extracted at every level from insurance to research to drug production and care delivery.  It is not due to government regulation.  Prices are set by profiteers.
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