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Author Topic: Fair compensation for artistic endevours  (Read 41899 times)

Bill Mueller

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Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« on: January 21, 2011, 02:52:30 PM »

Hello all,

Rather than clutter up Roger's thread with this very important topic, I thought I would open the can of worms on another thread.

We are in an unreasonable moment in history. On top of the most dire economic times since the Great Depression, we in the Intellectual Property industries of music, games, software and movies are facing unprecedented, massive public theft. The public seems to be oblivious to the basic needs of the very creators they rely on to keep them entertained and employed. Some are even thrilled to steal from us, believing we are all fat cats hanging out by the pool.

Some of our brightest stars have been reduced to ashes.

If even the best cannot survive, what of the rest of us?

What can we do to save our industries?

Please, please, do not clutter this thread with talk of selling tee shirts. Please, for Gods sake, those of you who do not rely on our industry for your living and are happy to crack software, and "share" music, stay away. I am looking for real answers, not excuses.

How do we survive?

Best regards,

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

Rod Affleck

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 03:39:33 PM »

Short answer: I don't know.

Slightly less short answer: by looking ahead, and predicting trends. For example, in 5 years, I suspect that illegal downloading as we know it now will no longer exist, or will at least have a significantly diminished presence. By then, everyone will have sufficiently fast internet connections that there will be no need to have a stored copy on your computer, people will just be streaming everything on demand to their computers, their 4G-enabled mobile devices, etc. And the new distribution models we see today being developed to provide that content (eg Grooveshark) will be firmly entrenched.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's time to stop focusing on what happened, and start preparing for what is about to happen. Beyond that, I'm afraid I don't really have any answers. Just because we can see what's going to happen, can we do anything about it, or leverage that knowledge to our advantage? Back to the short answer: I don't know.
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Rod Affleck

KB_S1

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 05:13:17 PM »

Bill,

I am finding some short term relief in projects that have no absolute commercial value.
What I mean is projects that matter a great deal to those involved but not to the general public.

The loss of, or diminished revenue therefore does not affect that project.

For example, today I recorded a primary (9-12yr olds) school choir. It was part of a prize awarded by Glasgow city council.

It involved hiring a PT HD rig and a fair price for my services.

These things are hard work and cannot provide riches but they are helpful to provide some help with the gaps in the diary.
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<a href="http://www.parklanerecordingstudios.com/" class="link3">Park Lane Studio</a> Where to find me most of the time<br /><br />

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kb_s1/" class="link3">Flickr</a>where to see what I have been up to  <br /><br />

Barry Hufker

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 06:36:02 PM »

I believe the audio industry is forever changed.  It is no longer a professional industry but one with professionals, amateurs and part-time professionals.  I'm sure that observation isn't news but it needs to be said every once in a while because in that statement are the ways one survives.

If one wants to remain a full-time professional, then one does what many are doing, be more entrepreneurial by becoming the originator of projects rather than just a service in that project.  I think I can recommend a strategy better than selling t-shirts.  It means looking at a-typical funding sources, such as community grants.

For instance here in Saint Louis, cable television pays each community a certain amount of money for the production of local programming.  While you can get a grant to shoot most any kind of program (which is legit and reasonable), I like to do music programs.

In essence, the process is to approach a not-for-profit music group (such as a local symphony orchestra, chorus, etc.).  Propose to the organization that you develop a tv/cable program consisting of one of their upcoming concerts.  The organization will apply for the community cable funding.  The grant covers all (or most) production expenses.  Funders love supporting arts agencies.  If there is a minority/unusual cultural angle all the better.

You can be the producer, editor, recording engineer, director of whatever else you can justify.  You can work with a local video company if you want, with each of you developing this type of project as a partnership.

The Not-For-Profit will love it because they will get greater media exposure (more in a minute).  The Funders will love it because they are doing something local and cultural.  They also get programming for the public access channel - and can legitimize their existence by proving to be a viable body turning out professional quality programming.

Usually the N-F-P (not-for-profit) group gets the rights to the finished video after it has aired for a certain amount of time on cable.  With a finished video, you can contract with the N-F-P to produce DVDs, CDs, etc. for them to sell as fundraisers.  They also now have audio/video to stream on their web site as well as media to use when applying for other grants.

So this works well.  It brings in income and makes everyone look good.  You can even enter these projects in a local cable awards competition.  There are also state and federal arts grants...

There you go.  It's no miracle but is a good example similar to Keith's.

Barry

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Bill Mueller

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 06:36:17 PM »

KB_S1 wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 17:13

Bill,

I am finding some short term relief in projects that have no absolute commercial value.
What I mean is projects that matter a great deal to those involved but not to the general public.

The loss of, or diminished revenue therefore does not affect that project.

For example, today I recorded a primary (9-12yr olds) school choir. It was part of a prize awarded by Glasgow city council.

It involved hiring a PT HD rig and a fair price for my services.

These things are hard work and cannot provide riches but they are helpful to provide some help with the gaps in the diary.

Keith,

Thanks for that. I swore off doing demos at least twenty years ago, but I think your right. We now need to treat every project as if it were a label release and hope that it garners an audience, somewhere. I won't roll back to ten songs a day unless Ruby Friedman comes to the East Coast and then I will work just to be in the same room with her.

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

Bill Mueller

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 06:45:57 PM »

Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 18:36

I believe the audio industry is forever changed.  It is no longer a professional industry but one with professionals, amateurs and part-time professionals.  I'm sure that observation isn't news but it needs to be said every once in a while because in that statement are the ways one survives.

If one wants to remain a full-time professional, then one does what many are doing, be more entrepreneurial by becoming the originator of projects rather than just a service in that project.  I think I can recommend a strategy better than selling t-shirts.  It means looking at a-typical funding sources, such as community grants.

For instance here in Saint Louis, cable television pays each community a certain amount of money for the production of local programming.  While you can get a grant to shoot most any kind of program (which is legit and reasonable), I like to do music programs.

In essence, the process is to approach a not-for-profit music group (such as a local symphony orchestra, chorus, etc.).  Propose to the organization that you develop a tv/cable program consisting of one of their upcoming concerts.  The organization will apply for the community cable funding.  The grant covers all (or most) production expenses.  Funders love supporting arts agencies.  If there is a minority/unusual cultural angle all the better.

You can be the producer, editor, recording engineer, director of whatever else you can justify.  You can work with a local video company if you want, with each of you developing this type of project as a partnership.

The Not-For-Profit will love it because they will get greater media exposure (more in a minute).  The Funders will love it because they are doing something local and cultural.  They also get programming for the public access channel - and can legitimize their existence by proving to be a viable body turning out professional quality programming.

Usually the N-F-P (not-for-profit) group gets the rights to the finished video after it has aired for a certain amount of time on cable.  With a finished video, you can contract with the N-F-P to produce DVDs, CDs, etc. for them to sell as fundraisers.  They also now have audio/video to stream on their web site as well as media to use when applying for other grants.

So this works well.  It brings in income and makes everyone look good.  You can even enter these projects in a local cable awards competition.  There are also state and federal arts grants...

There you go.  It's no miracle but is a good example similar to Keith's.

Barry



Quoted for emphasis.

Thanks Barry! Good ideas.

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

Bob Olhsson

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 07:30:43 PM »

Fight like mad to preserve every individual's right to copyright protection.

There is no reason to believe IP looting is inevitable. It will get reigned in at some point and we individuals need copyright to protect us from exploitation by the next generation of media monopolies. Wall Street wants to see copyright dialed back to 1900 but we don't need to let them get away with it.

Bill Mueller

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 08:34:13 PM »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 19:30

Fight like mad to preserve every individual's right to copyright protection.

There is no reason to believe IP looting is inevitable. It will get reigned in at some point and we individuals need copyright to protect us from exploitation by the next generation of media monopolies. Wall Street wants to see copyright dialed back to 1900 but we don't need to let them get away with it.

Bob,

You're exactly right. How can we organize?

Bill
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"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

David Ballenger

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 11:38:48 PM »

Speaking of which this just got sent to my email.  How do we the put the dogs of war on this?index.php/fa/16195/0/
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Tidewater

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2011, 11:29:02 AM »

That is a culture we aren't going to stop by begging.
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Jay Kadis

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2011, 11:38:04 AM »

Not by begging, no.  But by relentless intensive advertising, maybe.

Can we hire Karl Rove?  He seems to be able to get the masses to believe whatever he wants.

mgod

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 11:52:56 AM »

Bill,

I wish I had some wisdom to share here. Professor Hufker's take was interesting. Personally, I'm looking in 3 directions; the only music related one is to put a live band together and get out on the highway and return to unmediated musical experience.

I've observed a phenomenon that surprises me. There's an interesting piece in the Atlantic this past month on how internets porn has affected us. Not being a huge consumer of it - I like nekkid chicks, but beyond that I'm pretty vanilla - I wasn't aware of how much amateur has become the thing. It says that even well-worn-in pros are now affecting the style of and look of homemade. Now personally, I like pretty girls and good lighting. This seems to me of a piece with reality TV and the "Idol" phenom, both of which are pretty scripted. And it makes me wonder (cue 12-string):

Has home recording really affected how the general public wants music to sound? Is laptop recording and cheap Chinese mics now THE sound? I had an extraordinary 6 months of discovery in trying to lease out my gear. One of the things I found was that what I consider minimally acceptable sound is now pretty exotic. Our co-host here, Ross, said to me that I represent something that's going away. Being isolated in my little hilltop manse, I had no idea how radically things have changed.

When I was first getting into all this, back in the Pleistocene Era, there was a TV commercial proclaiming "You can be a star, no matter who you are." Even as a kid, I could tell that this wasn't a good thing. But I don't think this is something I can participate in, at least in LA, whee everyone who isn't a star wants to be one. I like what Barry has done with it, but I live in a company town, where the companies are abandoning the town. In some respects we're the Flint of music. So I was very surprised to hear Jack Douglas' son tell me that compared to NYC, this is now where the industry is.

And I acknowledge that I see people even slightly younger than me who are far more positive about things, who see the world differently than I do and who's expectations are different than mine. And I admire them for it.

But music live is still the real thing. I liked recording better because I could hear everyone better, but you takes what you can gets.
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Bubba#$%Kron

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2011, 12:25:08 PM »

Does anyone remember the writers strike that almost broke the union??  
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"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point."  -Alan Watts

Jay Kadis

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Re: Fair compensation for artistic endevours
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2011, 02:17:38 PM »

mgod wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 08:52


Has home recording really affected how the general public wants music to sound? Is laptop recording and cheap Chinese mics now THE sound? I had an extraordinary 6 months of discovery in trying to lease out my gear. One of the things I found was that what I consider minimally acceptable sound is now pretty exotic. Our co-host here, Ross, said to me that I represent something that's going away. Being isolated in my little hilltop manse, I had no idea how radically things have changed.
To be fair, in the '60's much music was heard on AM radio through a transistor radio.  That's not so different from the mp3 as far as the consumer is concerned.  The real root of the current situation is the use of music as a background to sell everything but the music.  That changes the way people relate to recorded music far more than the sonic quality.

I fully agree about live music and I've pretty much stopped putting my recordings out for the time being.  I'm going back to playing live.
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