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Author Topic: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick  (Read 24267 times)

Gio

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2011, 09:35:02 pm »

There are definite gaps in the system. My wife and I are both self employed. We earn too much to qualify for Gov funded health programs, but not enough to afford insurance on our own. Our kids are covered by a state plan with minimal premiums, but our income is right on the cut off line to qualify the whole family. Even through the Chamber of Commerce group plan, it would cost upwards of $1,400/month for the family. Add mortgage/rent and normal expenses..... it sucks.
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jonathan jetter

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2011, 10:04:34 pm »

DarinK wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 16:37

Short of overhauling the system


it is long past time to overhaul the system.

it boggles my mind that millions are not protesting daily in the streets.

a large-scale, nationwide, collective refusal to file taxes might be an effective first step.  but i think there's a good chance that we as a nation are just too far gone.

the problem is that everything is intertwined, and that many rich and powerful people have a vested interest in keeping everyone else right on the edge of poverty.  when your concern is about short-term survival there is no way for you to organize and force long-term change.

and to be fair, the average person shares some blame too.  as a culture we have become impossibly materialistic and apathetic.
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Tidewater

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2011, 03:03:45 am »

DarinK wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 20:00


Again, I doubt you mean it that way, but that's the way it can be interpreted.



It's no longer safe to speak here then.
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YZ

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2011, 03:40:56 am »

Tidewater wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 22:31


PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I just lost a great friend to colon cancer, and he was on $60k worth of meds a month. and one experimental drug to the next. Was a miracle. It was free.

You know how he got that stuff? He searched for it. Helping hisself.. with help from others.

2 in a year, same circumstances. Over 1m dollars worth of meds between 2 people, not including the treatments, and visits. I have seen our system working.



That's not a public health system, that's private pharma getting desperate people as guinea pigs for free. The worst exploitation possible. They should have PAID, and handsomely, the family of your friend for using him as a lab rat for testing not-yet-FDA-approved drugs that if approved with help from the sacrifice of your friend would give the lab billions in profits.
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2011, 06:06:41 am »

The sad irony of the situation is that as a result of an ideological obsession with not paying for other people's healthcare, the average American ends up paying more for his own.

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Bill_Urick

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2011, 07:05:09 am »

jonathan jetter wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 22:04


it is long past time to overhaul the system.



I'm sorry. Didn't this just happen? Or did I dream it?

I thought the problem was solved.
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MagnetoSound

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2011, 08:20:08 am »

Tidewater wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 00:31

Eric H. wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 17:24

Who is making the prices?




The elves that live in the magic place that cures come from?

A shiny jewel that is polished by a unicorn princess crossing a golden rainbow of happiness?

An evil guy who only invested money in a cure to make a profit?

...

I just lost a great friend to colon cancer, and he was on $60k worth of meds a month.

...

2 in a year, same circumstances. Over 1m dollars worth of meds between 2 people, not including the treatments, and visits. I have seen our system working.




At those prices, YES, he is an evil guy. Or, put another way, it is an evil profit. That is perfectly clear to most people.


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jonathan jetter

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2011, 09:15:59 am »

Bill_Urick wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 07:05

jonathan jetter wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 22:04


it is long past time to overhaul the system.



I'm sorry. Didn't this just happen? Or did I dream it?

I thought the problem was solved.



i'm sorry- i should have been more clear.  i was referring to an overhaul of this whole damn system.  not just health care.  but government.

to get back on topic- my problems with this health care reform:

1.  i do think it's unconstitutional to *require* someone to buy insurance.  i don't know what the solution is, and it's clearly a complicated issue, but i am not onboard with forcing someone to pay for a service.  it should be my right to decline that coverage, spend my own money how i please, and suffer any consequences that emerge later on.

2.  they say it will save money.  we all know how government runs things.  it will not save money.  it will not reduce the deficit.

3.  they snuck in that stupid amendment about how small businesses now have to 1099 any vendor from whom they purchase more than $600 of goods.  not just contractor payments for services, but like, even if i buy $600 from mercenary.

having said that, it's clear that the system is really broken, and so, leaving aside my belief that our government is fundamentally illegitimate, i'm actually rather in favor of trying something rather than nothing, even if i don't think it will be entirely successful.  i am somewhat impressed that my government did anything besides passing the buck to the next congress.

jon
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Barry Hufker

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2011, 09:46:36 am »

Tidewater wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 02:03

DarinK wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 20:00


Again, I doubt you mean it that way, but that's the way it can be interpreted.



It's no longer safe to speak here then.


It is "safe" to speak here.  But it is not guaranteed everyone (or anyone) is going to agree with you.  This process is called a "discussion".  Adults have them all the time.  It seems to me you received the most polite reply possible.  Much more so than mine...

Barry
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2011, 10:00:54 am »

jonathan jetter wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 14:15

1.  i do think it's unconstitutional to *require* someone to buy insurance.  i don't know what the solution is, and it's clearly a complicated issue, but i am not onboard with forcing someone to pay for a service.  it should be my right to decline that coverage, spend my own money how i please, and suffer any consequences that emerge later on.


But that isn't what would happen.

What would happen is that you would be drained of all your money by an overly expensive healthservice,

and then, because the callousness of the American public only goes so far, and you don't actually just let people die, you would be kept alive by their taxes paying for overly expensive healthcare.

(or if it's someone else who gets ill, you'll be the one paying over the odds).

As for being "unconstitutional", well I don't know that it is, but anyway much as I admire the US written constitution as a whole, I also recognize that it was written three hundred years ago by people in very different circumstances and times change and so has the constitution. If it is the reason you shackle yourselves with a healthcare system which is both cruel to those who are unfortunate and overpriced to those who are fortunate, then change it.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2011, 10:51:01 am »

It is not unconstitutional to require someone to buy insurance.  You are legally required to have car insurance when you drive.  It may be unpleasant.  It may not be what you want.  But just as you are required to pay taxes, being required to purchase health insurance is just a "health tax" or a legal way to make sure all people participate in the nation's health plan -- by that I mean the plan by which we will keep costs reasonable.

Barry
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Wireline

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2011, 11:25:16 am »

Actually, it IS unconstitutional to require health care at the Federal level...auto insurance is always at the state level, which explains why insurance company A sometimes cannot sell in some states.

One thing that is not being addressed is reality - assuming that some sort of equal and acceptable plan is devised (doubtful), then how does the Federal gobmint ensure that people living in West Texas, rural Arkansas, Appalachia, or any tribal lands, get the exact same level of care, hospitalization, MRI, etc, as the guy living in major metro areas?

Simple answer - you can't:  these areas are already suffering from extreme doctor and facility shortages.  To mandate and force them pay for something we/they will NEVER see is beyond absurd.

Make it equal access, make it a workable plan, then lets seriously look at it...until then, it is a great thing if one lives in a metropolitan area - live outside the big cities, and you are hung out to dry
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2011, 11:41:45 am »

Wireline wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 16:25

Make it equal access, make it a workable plan, then lets seriously look at it...


How about seriously looking at how to make it equal access and workable?

If your car was as broken as your health system was, the only discussion and argument you'd have with your partner was over which car was best to buy to replace it, not whether or not it needed replacing.
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Wireline

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2011, 11:47:26 am »

Jon Hodgson wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 10:41

Wireline wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 16:25

Make it equal access, make it a workable plan, then lets seriously look at it...


How about seriously looking at how to make it equal access and workable?

If your car was as broken as your health system was, the only discussion and argument you'd have with your partner was over which car was best to buy to replace it, not whether or not it needed replacing.


Which is what repealing this current 'system' and starting over is all about...any program that the population was advised to pass it to find out what was in it is wrong in its very nature.

How many waivers have been already granted?  This in and of itself shows the new system to be as busted as the old system, just busted for a whole new class of people.
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Ken Morgan
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Barry Hufker

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Re: State of US healthcare - what we can do to not go bankrupt when we're sick
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2011, 12:33:34 pm »

I'm sorry, but requiring health care coverage is NOT unconstitutional.  And as I'm not a legal expert, here is the news from someone who is:
http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/08/25/is-it-unconstitu tional-to-mandate-health-insurance/

Despite one ruling that is it unconstitutional, there have been many which have affirmed that it is.

Barry
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