R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)  (Read 10065 times)

DarinK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 410
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2011, 05:57:01 pm »

ssltech wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 14:47

Bubba#$%Kron wrote

I'd still bang the shit out her, willow's pretty hot too!!!!



See... -THIS is the sort of respectful, civil discussion which I'm thinking about.

-Seriously though, while I REALLY don't like Sarah Palin, while I HATE the idea of having as leader who may be significantly less clever than I am, and while I surely dislike many of the principles, there are some basic fundaments which -for me- delineate the thin end of the wedge.

If we can't have a civil discussion just because we don't like someone, then I don't believe that we'll ever be able to move forward.

If anyone reading what I write doesn't agree with me, or holds an entirely contrary opinion or feeling, that's PERFECTLY fine. -But if they think that -because I'm somehow "wrong" that the basic requirement that they don't treat me like I'm less than a nugget of dung doesn't apply... then I want no part of a society which believed that to be in ANY way acceptable.

Keith


I think the negative response to your very civilized attitude is due to the fact that many of us are tired of arguments about the discussion, rather than actually discussing the issues at hand, whatever they are.  It's a distraction/deflection from the point.  And it leads to lengthy detours where even those who agree find themselves arguing about the language being used.  
Having said that, I do believe it's best to criticize actions & ideas, not individuals.  But sometimes it's so much easier to just say, "Sarah Palin is disgusting" rather than, "Sarah Palin's views, ideas, behaviors & principles are such that they invoke in me a feeling of disgust."
Logged

Bubba#$%Kron

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 243
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2011, 06:04:53 pm »

I smell a double standard!! Chicks can talk about how sexy obama is during the election and I cant say Sarah's hot, well she is!!  It was a compliment, even if I used vulgar locker room rhetoric!!  Not to mention the F word being thrown around in the other thread, this is a saloon - is'nt it?!!?

You do make good points though keef, oh wait- that funny joke about your name means your racist- no - its funny!!!!! Wink Wink

cheers

ssltech wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 14:47

Bubba#$%Kron wrote

I'd still bang the shit out her, willow's pretty hot too!!!!



See... -THIS is the sort of respectful, civil discussion which I'm thinking about.

-Seriously though, while I REALLY don't like Sarah Palin, while I HATE the idea of having as leader who may be significantly less clever than I am, and while I surely dislike many of the principles, there are some basic fundaments which -for me- delineate the thin end of the wedge.

If we can't have a civil discussion just because we don't like someone, then I don't believe that we'll ever be able to move forward.

If anyone reading what I write doesn't agree with me, or holds an entirely contrary opinion or feeling, that's PERFECTLY fine. -But if they think that -because I'm somehow "wrong" that the basic requirement that they don't treat me like I'm less than a nugget of dung doesn't apply... then I want no part of a society which believed that to be in ANY way acceptable.

Keith

Logged
"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point."  -Alan Watts

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2011, 09:01:10 pm »

Hey Bubba; I wasn't actually trying to bag on you or anything... I just used your post as an opportunity for some levity, and to return to my point.

-I think that if we DO take the time to ponder and reconsider, and that if SOME measure of civility can be restored as a result of this tragedy, then at least some good may result.

-Having said that, I watched Sarah Palin's video response to the shootings, and I was pretty disgusted right at 1:30 into the whole thing.

It started off with some not-particularly well read (I felt ZERO sincerity, and if it had been a voice-over session, I'd have been looking for someone else to read it, it was that level of unconvincing) and perfectly correct comments and expression of sympathy/condolence, but at ninety seconds in, it turned into a "those people shouldn't be blaming me... it's THEIR fault" defensive tirade.

Contrasting that with Obama's speech -which by contrast concentrated on a more hopeful and positive outlook- was an illuminating comparison.

Anyhow, I'm ready to try and improve how I speak of others. -If others would join me, perhaps at least tings might improve a little... though I fear that the AM radio 'format' might be less profitable if they dropped the (somewhat compelling for their target audience, I've no doubt) outrage. -If my read on that is true, I don't expect much improvement there.

Keith
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

Tidewater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3816
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2011, 11:28:13 pm »

Keith, keep on the real topics. You got sucked in again, and now I am sucked into defending her this much, again..

The reason it sounded written is because it was. She is on a media blitz to prove that we love her, we really love her, and all this 'turmoil' creates an op for the press to tell us that (for some ASS reason) everyone who is a celebrity must have an opinion... let's go live to the bathroom now!

She preempts perceived attacks with 3 days of edited strength.. no one asked for.. they plot, they plan.. what's the strategy.... hmmm..

I think the president is just the same dumbass for all his shenanigans related to the subject as well.. they ALL are morons, and I don't need them to explain a damned thing to me.

He plans.. he plots... what's the strategy.. hmm...

They all plan, plot, and strategize until they have the perfect catch phrases.

Empty bullshit is what they come up with. It's like not being a Dylan fan, and having to listen to the b-sides on a loop.

Also, what's this illusion that I am supposed to care about every other living person in a brotherhood of mankind? I don't. Neither do these liars. At least I am honest. That is humanity for you.
Logged
Time Magazine's 2007 Man of the Year

jonathan jetter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 443
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2011, 12:54:03 am »

ssltech wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 21:01



-I think that if we DO take the time to ponder and reconsider, and that if SOME measure of civility can be restored as a result of this tragedy, then at least some good may result.

....

Anyhow, I'm ready to try and improve how I speak of others. -If others would join me, perhaps at least tings might improve a little... though I fear that the AM radio 'format' might be less profitable if they dropped the (somewhat compelling for their target audience, I've no doubt) outrage. -If my read on that is true, I don't expect much improvement there.



keith,

in regard to conversation between you and me, i certainly would agree.  or between you and most people, or between me and most people.

but when it comes to interaction between me and, say, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, or a United States senator, or the RNC Chairman, and so on, then no.  civility has no place.  they are not human like we are human.  i do not respect their jobs as legitimate and i do not respect them as moral beings.

for you and me, and most of the world, our fortunes rise and fall in parallel with those of the people we work with, live with, and befriend.  our self-interest most often coincides with what is best for our fellow men.  if you work hard for a client, and he ends up with with a better album, he is more likely to find success.  his success will increase your exposure, and so on.

for the bankers and the politicians and the defense contractors, they make their fortunes at the expense of the welfare and/or lives of the rest of us.  the pentagon loses track of 2 trillion dollars.  KBR electrocutes soldiers because it can't be troubled to properly install electrical wiring at military bases.  goldman defrauds its investors and pays some trivial fine to the SEC.  the politicians watch it all happen and do nothing.

thoughts?

jon
Logged

Jon Hodgson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1854
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2011, 07:31:31 am »

jonathan jetter wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 05:54

in regard to conversation between you and me, i certainly would agree.  or between you and most people, or between me and most people.

but when it comes to interaction between me and, say, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, or a United States senator, or the RNC Chairman, and so on, then no.  civility has no place.  they are not human like we are human.  i do not respect their jobs as legitimate and i do not respect them as moral beings.


What elitist, misguided and hateful bollocks.

Bankers and Senators are human beings, like everyone else. They have strengths and weaknesses, they have good sides and bad sides, they are as different to each other as they are similar to everyone else.

They are responsible for bigger things, so when they do wrong (either by accident or by design) it affects more people to a greater degree than when people in less powerful jobs do so, so we should wish for them to be as good and as competent as possible, better than the average, so we shouldn't go too easy on them when they screw up.

Some individuals may be genuinely nasty pieces of work, but to attribute sub human characteristics to a whole group of people because of their chosen profession, professions which are necessary in our current political and economic systems, is just bollocks.
Logged

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2011, 08:19:42 am »

jonathan jetter wrote

thoughts?

jon



I hear you, and please appreciate that I share many of your feelings regarding her capability; or more specifically the lack of it.

However, even if you think that someone else is as honorable as a sewer rat, the moment that we declare that we don't have to be civil to them is the moment that we meet them at their level... and now we have TWO sewer rats and NO honor.

This may sound like an absurd over-extension, but if we abandon civility then we may as well abandon hope. -The very word 'Civilization' means a collective agreement to behave in a civil manner. -Abandoning civility is -literally- the very definition of the breakdown of civilization.

In another analogy which may initially seem over-reaching, the shooting spree in Tucson could also be regarded as one (albeit highly deranged) individual deciding for themself that due process and civility weren't getting him anywhere, and that a more direct approach was -in his view- therefore justified... -Again, please forgive it it seems like an exaggerated comparison, however due process and civility are enshrined in our constitution to the point that we are obliged to give this person shelter, assistance and medical help while we think about what he deserves; even if it means that we eventually electrocute, shoot, or poison him. -I know that could be viewed as bizarre, but this basic constitutional entitlement to civility is one of the genuinely DECENT things about this country that I admire and respect. -The lives of millions in Russia, Zimbabwe, and more countries than I could even contemplate would be immeasurably improved if they had just that fundamental constitutional entitlement.

Keith
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

Bubba#$%Kron

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 243
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2011, 11:45:04 am »

Shes tearing us apart people, I blame her for the new forum switch also-just kidding!!! Smile   Its true, civility is crucial and you do have to feel bad for a person like that when she googles herself.

She is still a person, and this is america- regardless of what we think of her she did make her way to vice pres. nomination - that is quite an accomplishment and she is not as low as bin laden and should not be treated in the same manner. I agree with you Keith!!

The most interesting aspect of Obamas presidency is the fact that he is trying to make everything as boring as possible on purpose.  Because of Monica Lewinsky, Bush, and 9/11, the news has turned the american political system into a huge reality tv show - people on both sides of the aisle wake up and watch TV all day because of this.    Everyone thought Obama was going to be a reality show president, but he is quite the opposite. His goal is to make things go back to the way it has been for hundreds of years, very boring serious stuff.  He will only bring out the show horses when truly needed and its better for the country.

The news channels dont have anything to talk about and Palin is always good fodder.  Their ratings are going down and people  get less and less phyco angry every month.   Its boring as hell, but we are gonna be way better off because of it.  Its fun to pick up on the battle between news producers and Obama, but Ratings are the only thing that matters to them - and pitting blue and red against each other should be left in the sports stadiums IMO!

Cheers
Logged
"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point."  -Alan Watts

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2011, 03:50:02 pm »

"We can't tell our left from right, but we KNOW we love extremes,
Getting to grips with the ups & downs because there's nothing in between..."
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

jonathan jetter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 443
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2011, 01:13:14 am »

Jon Hodgson wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 07:31



What elitist, misguided and hateful bollocks.

Bankers and Senators are human beings, like everyone else. They have strengths and weaknesses, they have good sides and bad sides, they are as different to each other as they are similar to everyone else.

They are responsible for bigger things, so when they do wrong (either by accident or by design) it affects more people to a greater degree than when people in less powerful jobs do so, so we should wish for them to be as good and as competent as possible, better than the average, so we shouldn't go too easy on them when they screw up.

Some individuals may be genuinely nasty pieces of work, but to attribute sub human characteristics to a whole group of people because of their chosen profession, professions which are necessary in our current political and economic systems, is just bollocks.


hi Jon,

to be fair, i can think of several current/recent elected officials who have grown their proverbial balls and have overall done right for their nation:

Ron Paul
Russell Feingold
Paul Wellstone
Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins (not always, but more often than not)
Kirsten Gillibrand (again not always, but more often than not)
James Traficant (a rather serious fuckup who nonetheless managed to shift the burden of proof in civil tax cases from the taxpayer to the IRS)
and i'm sure a few more who i can't think of right now.

but, then, to balance (or overbalance) the scale:

 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main32 5985.shtml

 http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/medicare-overpays-w heelchairs/2010-11-30

 http://articles.cnn.com/2008-05-28/us/soldier.electrocutions _1_electrocuted-shower-painful-death?_s=PM:US

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide_arms_smugg ling_claims

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003526-503544.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1/16/133331/558

 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main30360 1.shtml

and that's just from 5 minutes of searching on the issues that were foremost in my mind while semi-drunk at 1:00 a.m.  if i am interpreting correctly, i think you are assessing the problem as one of a handful of bad apples, whereas i see the lying/corruption/fraud as endemic, and see the few good politicians as the stark exception to the rule.

regards,

jon

Logged

Fenris Wulf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 499
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2011, 02:50:42 am »

Jon Hodgson wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 12:31

jonathan jetter wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 05:54

in regard to conversation between you and me, i certainly would agree.  or between you and most people, or between me and most people.

but when it comes to interaction between me and, say, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, or a United States senator, or the RNC Chairman, and so on, then no.  civility has no place.  they are not human like we are human.  i do not respect their jobs as legitimate and i do not respect them as moral beings.


What elitist, misguided and hateful bollocks.


Anti-elitism is now elitist.

Awesome.
Logged
RESIST THE CYBERNETIC OVERLORDS
KDVS Studio A

ssltech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4780
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2011, 08:07:49 am »

Fenris Wulf wrote

Anti-elitism is now elitist.
Awesome.


I don't read Jonathan's post as anti-elitist.

-To me, it simply expresses indignation and revulsion at corruption etc. -Wherever it may happen. Nothing particularly wrong with that, and that's certainly not where we differ; rather only in whether or not such people are entitled to be dealt with in a civilized manner.

Keith
Logged
MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

Jon Hodgson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1854
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2011, 08:47:04 am »

Fenris Wulf wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 07:50



Anti-elitism is now elitist.

Awesome.


I don't see anything anti-elitist about declaring whole employment groups to be some sort of sub species... "they are not human like we are human"... whether those groups are those with money and power, or those without.

Maybe because I think of the term as meaning "Anti those who are Elitist" (i.e. think they are better than others and can treat them accordingly) as opposed to "Anti 'The Elite'" (which is a term I don't really accept, a skillset can make you elite in your field, being rich or powerful does not make you elite).
Logged

Jay Kadis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2165
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2011, 10:28:44 am »

While they're unfortunately all too human, those responsible for the subversion of  our economic and political system for personal gain should be held responsible.

fiasco ( P.M.DuMont )

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2011, 01:42:31 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Wed, 19 January 2011 10:28

While they're unfortunately all too human, those responsible for the subversion of  our economic and political system for personal gain should be held responsible.



And do you posit that these people are primarily Republican?
Logged
Philip
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Up