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Author Topic: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)  (Read 11425 times)

Hallams

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Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« on: January 13, 2011, 07:09:36 pm »

Ok, thought i would rename this thread and link to what i see as a moderate article analyzing aspects of the fall out from the recent Arizona shootings. (He articulates the position that sits comfortably with me far better than i could state it.)

  http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/extremisms-explosi   ve-effects-remind-us-to-take-all-things-in-moderation-201101 13-19pr4.html

Extremism's explosive effects remind us to take all things in moderation
Steve Harris
January 14, 2011

Divisive, sound-bite politics does great harm to the cause of democracy.

AMERICA is paying a high price for the demonising of democracy and smashing of the public-interest lens into a cacophony of simplistic sound bites, policy-by-slogan, bigotry and vitriol. The integrity of language, trust and public interest is too readily confined to the back of a bus hijacked by the extreme and marginal.

But this problem is not America's alone.


Too many people in leadership positions become victims of PAIDS - politically acquired integrity deficiency syndrome - and eschew their responsibilities. That is bad enough, but then the media fuel and elevate the virus of conflict and celebrity, and the internet removes usual protective barriers of time and distance.

A simplistic analysis might cite Sarah Palin as evidence of the trend to simplification but she is only one player on a stage that has had many players for many years.

As the world becomes more connected and complex, and as communities struggle to keep up without losing their soul, so leaders and media can easily become partners in the crime of reducing or distorting issues into a fast-food diet.

The people of Arizona are not so different to Australians, but they have become victims of polarised and simplistic debates about gun laws, immigration, economics, religion, health and presidency.

When issues are polarised, the voice and influence of moderation is lost, whether that is Arizona, Australia or Afghanistan. When moderation is lost, the lunatics feel free to say and do as they please, and sometimes end up in charge of the asylum.

This newspaper has argued that a national conversation about policy should be based on evidence, but even a well-intentioned newspaper sometimes struggles to provide evidence over emotion, dialogue over demonisation, intelligence over insults, sophistication over celebrity, substance over sound bite.

It is a challenging environment, and it is difficult to see change and history when you are going through it. Distance gives us some perspective, making it easier to see the problems in places such as the US, where senior politicians, policymakers, judges and academics lament the din of bigotry, ignorance, irresponsibility and self-interest.

The imam behind the so-called Ground Zero mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf, has highlighted the challenge: "The real battlefront is not between the West and the Muslim world. It's between the moderates of all faith traditions and the extremists or radicals, and I include in that the agnostic and atheist community. The radicals are unwitting partners. They fuel each other.

''The moderates have become the silent majority, but we are the majority."

Australians might disapprove of and dismiss the extremism we see overseas, but the country would benefit from a deeper reflection on how this polarisation has become so ingrained in the lingua franca.

Australian political and business leaders are, generally, a moderate breed, but the US has issued a severe warning about the consequences of distorting the integrity of democracy, language and accountability.

A good sound bite might make for a feel-good news headline today, but it might also sow a poor legacy for many tomorrows.

If we seriously think we are better than the worst of American politics and society, then we ought to be seeing less polarisation in our conversations on issues such as immigration, education, water management, environment, mining and taxation.

The silent majority are moderates and they need to apply pressure to those who seek to win support on any issue on the basis of polarisation and oversimplification. Otherwise it is difficult to see how we will get sustainable, commonsense policy and increased civility and fairness.

We don't want our leaders saying it's time to reload against opponents, ban Muslims, seek divine retribution against rivals, kill Julian Assange, or assassinate foreign leaders. But if we don't want to risk descending to that level, we must find a way for all the people, other than the polarised, to be in the game.

[Steve Harris is executive director of the Centre for Leadership and Public Interest at Swinburne University.]

=============================================


Can't help noticing there is an uncanny likeness to Nana Mouskouri. Perhaps this is a big part of her subliminal appeal.


index.php/fa/16160/0/
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Chris Hallam.
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Bill_Urick

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 10:26:55 am »

Sarah/Nana, Nana/Sarah.

Uma/Oprah, Oprah/Uma.

Dem/Rep, Rep/Dem.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=45c_1294637524


index.php/fa/16161/0/
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Jay Kadis

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 10:44:27 am »

Even when using the same kind of rhetoric, the left uses targets while the right uses cross-hairs.  That is a significant difference.

Dominick

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 11:21:18 am »

 index.php/fa/16163/0/
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Dominick Costanzo

Bill_Urick

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 06:53:50 pm »

Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 10:44

Even when using the same kind of rhetoric, the left uses targets while the right uses cross-hairs.  That is a significant difference.


Hi, Jay. Hope all is well.

If the actual symbol is significant...

index.php/fa/16166/0/
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Bill_Urick

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 06:55:51 pm »

Please note that on the above map that the intersecting lines extend beyond the bounds of the circle as does the top symbol here:

index.php/fa/16167/0/
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Bill_Urick

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 06:58:25 pm »

Whereas crosshairs found on a rifle scope would look more like this:

index.php/fa/16169/0/


Your serve.
Smile
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

DarinK

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2011, 07:13:12 pm »

Of course, Palin announced that map with a tweet that said "Don't Retreat, Reload,"  and she used that phrase several times after that.
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Bill_Urick

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 07:15:08 pm »

Edit-Wouldn't know. I don't follow her "tweets".

I was really hoping we were going to give this one a miss.
But, here we are.

Let's remember what's really important right now.
Wishing healing to the families of all the victims.
Wishing a speedy recovery to those injured.

Personally I hope Ms. Giffords is back to work, voting as she sees fit, as quickly as possible.

This was not a political act and does not need to be politicised.

But hey, it's a shame to let a good crises go to waste, isn't it?
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Paul Cavins

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2011, 09:35:41 pm »

Life is a Rorschach test. This tragic event, for the Left, HAD TO BE a result of their enemies' wrongfulness. Paul Krugman didn't wait more than a couple of hours before he blamed it on the RIght.

The left sees everything in the world through their hatred of their political enemies.

There is absolutely no political angle on this tragedy, or at least there shouldn't be.

We should all just wish the victims  and their families well.

PC
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Hallams

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 10:10:11 pm »

Paul Cavins wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 13:35

Life is a Rorschach test. This tragic event, for the Left, HAD TO BE a result of their enemies' wrongfulness. Paul Krugman didn't wait more than a couple of hours before he blamed it on the RIght.

The left sees everything in the world through their hatred of their political enemies.

There is absolutely no political angle on this tragedy, or at least there shouldn't be.

We should all just wish the victims  and their families well.

PC



It is simply untrue that " There is absolutely no political angle on this tragedy....."

It is equally untrue that the rhetoric of the right is solely to blame.

It is a grave error of judgment for anyone to make any attempt at political scoring in the immediate aftermath of such a tragedy.

By far the main responsibility is with the perpetrator.

An objective assessment of the political culture within the USA would involve a critique such as that in the article i quoted in full in the first post. From that article, this quote is where i would hope some galvanizing of opinion within both Democrat and Republican parties would would focus :

"The moderates have become the silent majority, but we are the majority."

No party would want to lose face by making public statements for its constituency or leaders to curb and distance themselves from the violent vitriol and extremism that the article suggests is a grave threat to the health of a democracy.

There needs to be public debate and pressure put on political parties by the silent majority in the US for this to happen.....soul searching from within rather than accusation and finger pointing from each side to the other will to my mind be more productive.

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Chris Hallam.
Melbourne, Australia.
 

Paul Cavins

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 10:25:34 pm »

Chris, I believe there should not be any political angle on this tragedy.

The perp is mentally ill. The great forces of fire that rage in our political debate did not influence this guy.

We shouldn't be learning lessons from deranged wack jobs.

I have no problem discussing the merits of moderation in political discourse, but this is not the occasion. We will do damage to the truth if we allow this event to draw the parameters of debate.

We shouldn't conveniently use this tragedy to advance any ideas about anything, except sorrow, and maybe about how we deal with severely mentally ill people.

PC
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ssltech

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 12:37:39 pm »

I don't see a PARTISAN cause at the root... I see a lack of respect and civility. -On both sides, but with the right perhaps having more commonly chosen slightly more 'unfortunate' terms.

No one raindrop is to blame for the flood; but I believe that the accumulated rising tide may very well have helped this madness to float... -It certainly wouldn't have done anything to discourage it.

I think that even without this sickening event, ANY time is a great time to examine the 'acceptability' of such uncivil shouting.

Keith
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MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

jonathan jetter

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 03:20:32 pm »

clearly, what happened in Tucson is tragic.  but i disagree with toning down any rhetoric, and i see it as essentially one more way for the government to minimize dissent.

certain belief systems are not as moral as others.  certain things are right, and certain things are wrong.  it is our obligation as decent people to fight for what is right.

i think this country is on a very, very wrong track.  and "civility" will lead to "compromise" will lead to "kicking the can further down the road when it comes to any attempt to deal with the deficit, with social security, with medicare, with the criminal oligarchy, etc etc."  while we're all playing at being nicer to each other, the debt will still increase at record levels.  the gap between the middle class and the elite will grow wider and wider.  foreclosure rates will still go up.  cost of living will still increase while real purchasing power decreases and unemployment stays high.

most national politicians and corporations do not deserve my respect or civility.

sarah palin does not deserve my respect or civility.  

wachovia and bank of america do not deserve my respect or civility:

 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-29/banks-financing-mex ico-s-drug-cartels-admitted-in-wells-fargo-s-u-s-deal.html

the US Military does not deserve my respect or civility:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/germs.htm

and so on.

a certain amount of demagoguery is most always a necessary catalyst for any real change.

to say it another way:  extremists change the world.  Thomas Paine was an extremist.  so were Franklin and Adams and Jefferson. Malcolm X was an extremist. and Gandhi.  and Mandela.  and Kenyatta.
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Tidewater

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Re: Extremism's explosive effects....... (formally Sarah/Nana???)
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 07:32:29 am »

Fuck this.

I own guns. Lots. I get pissed off. You see me shooting people?

This is bullshit. You will not take my speech, NOR will you take my guns.
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