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Author Topic: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?  (Read 27931 times)

Offline boogietube

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Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« on: November 01, 2010, 10:18:30 pm »
With all of out modern technology, why can't the famous VF14M be manufactured? Is it a question of process? economics?
It seems to me that someone should be able to do this.  

Sean

Offline compasspnt

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Re: Stupid Question? Maybe? VF14M
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 10:32:02 pm »
This has been discussed here several times before.

Not going to happen.

It's all of the above and more.

Offline Klaus Heyne

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Re: Stupid Question? Maybe? VF14M
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2010, 01:25:33 am »
...and, as had been discussed before, the devil is in the detail:

super-rare materials, obsolete manufacturing processes, loss of institutional memory, lack of a corporate cooperation between a huge tube maker (Telefunken) and the, at the time, largest condenser microphone manufacturer in the world (Neumann).
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Offline johnR

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2010, 09:47:24 am »
The thread in the following link contains a general discussion of why tubes can't be made like they used to. Many of the reasons also apply to the VF14M:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/438090/0/?srch= tube+manufacture#msg_438090

Offline jpaul_bordon

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2010, 12:46:04 pm »
Was the VF-14 (M or non M) ever used in a piece of equipment that we could be looking for in yard sales or electronic swap meets here in the USA?  I guess I am asking for non microphone factory installed applications.  I have picked up more than one non functioning old organs for the near NOS vintage tubes!

Offline Klaus Heyne

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2010, 03:29:49 pm »
The VF14 was specifically designed for the Neumann U47 microphone. Though some of the rejects that were found not suitable to work in mics were resold on the amateur/hobby radio market.

Therefore, VF14 are almost never found on garage sales or flea markets.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Offline Jakob Erland

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 06:57:02 am »
I'm pretty sure that the rejects were also used in a commercial UHF- or FM-converter box to interface old receivers to the "new" standard

edit: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vf14.html

Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let harman run your company..

Offline Klaus Heyne

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 03:05:21 pm »
Please cite a reference to the "commercial" availability and application of this box.

From the link you gave, the bread box shown and the reference to the owner looks to me like a one-off home made project by a hobbyist.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Offline jpaul_bordon

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 09:55:19 am »
It sure looks like a one-off to me. I wonder if this unit is sitting in a german basement of stacked boxes marked "Grand Dad's Experiments"

index.php/fa/15790/0/

Offline J.J. Blair

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 02:02:36 pm »
That's an expensive experiment!   LOL.
studio info

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Offline volki

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 10:38:39 am »
Klaus Heyne wrote on Tue, 02 November 2010 20:29

The VF14 was specifically designed for the Neumann U47 microphone.


Wow, is that so? I was under the impression that the first tube ever custom designed for a mic was Hiller's MSC-1 (sub miniature) from around 1946. Especially if you compare the dimensions, it surprises me that Neumann would have gone with a steel tube of that size for a custom design... of course, "normal" miniature tubes weren't introduced commercially until a few years after the U47's developement, but the technology for even smaller tubes obviously was around already...

Volker Meitz

Offline Klaus Heyne

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2010, 01:39:25 pm »
Steel body octagonals were of course already in use at the time the U47 came into being, but the particular octagonal Neumann settled on was exclusively manufactured and delivered to the microphone company.

Another myth is that the VF14 tube was a war or pre- war tube. Not so. The first  VF14 was manufactured two years after World War II ended.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Offline Fletcher

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 06:10:23 am »
Klaus Heyne wrote on Fri, 05 November 2010 13:39

Another myth is that the VF14 tube was a war or pre- war tube. Not so. The first  VF14 was manufactured two years after World War II ended.


All due respect - I am curious to the source of this information - I don't know if some of the people I have been speaking to over here are regurgitating "the myth" or have alternative / factual information.

If you're not comfortable posting that source - PM or email would be fine.  I have no agenda or dispute with your statement, but like many other, am in search of the truth.

Peace.
CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm


Offline Klaus Heyne

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 01:23:49 pm »
Primary information: date codes. I have never come across VF14 date codes that preceded 1947.

Secondary information: two former Telefunken (the original company) tube factory employees, one now dead, the other old.

I am also not aware of any other tube that Telefunken has ever issued that was exclusively made for and sold to one manufacturer only.

To my knowledge, neither Neumann nor anyone else had made microphones or other products prior to 1947/1948 (introduction of the U47) which used that tube, and no one used it after the U47's phase-out period, starting around 1959 (when Gotham's strong hand was felt in Berlin.)

I am of course open to modifying the information I publicised, if it can be corroborated.
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Offline Oliver Archut

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Re: Why Can't The VF14M Be Made Again?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 03:03:50 pm »
The main source  for production numbers is the Telefunken production code book,  the last sales director of the tube plant in Ulm has it, he save it when the factory was closed. His VF14 numbers match the documentation I have from the tube plant in Berlin, in the time frame 1946 to 1958 27500 VF14 were made in three production runs. The VF14 was one of the last steel-tubes ever made.
Also 38000 glass VF14 were made by the former Telefunken tube plant in Erfurt, those ones were made 1948 and labeled with the diamond shape but Telefunken was replaced with Funkwerk.
Only a hand full of them are still around, the majority was discarded and ended up in a landfill/wetland in Erfurt due to production/quality issues.
Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.