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Author Topic: audio schools.....a commentary of observation  (Read 7941 times)

Eric H.

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2010, 05:26:40 pm »

In any way, audio schools have a very dubious purpose.
Like some has said here at different times, it is much more efficient to find a mentor.
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Tomas Danko

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2010, 07:00:02 am »

Apropos PT short cuts, I tend to always forget them.

I deal with several DAW systems at work, and a lot of times we need to figure out what we need to do for a certain task within a project and evaluate all systems to see which one will give us the best and most efficient work flow.

This includes figuring out how to automate certain operations as well as finding short cuts that will do the job. It's not unusual that I get a programming engineer to add a function to the DAW or hack something together for me.


PT is often not the optimal platform, other times it is the least bad one. When I'm finally doing work in PT I learn all the short cuts I need for the project and become super-fast while working away.

Next time I'm using PT for something else I've already forgotten half of it, but then again there's a new task in front of me which requires new ways to do things.


In other words, I tend to get away with reading up on PT short cuts and behaviours just before it's time to do some serious work. I realize you can't get away with it should you work as a DAW jockey and PT operator in a commercial studio.


The last couple of days I've only been using 3 and 0 on the numerical key pad, option+c and command+s. Smile

Cheers,

Danko
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Daniel Farris

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2010, 12:09:33 pm »

My girlfriend has a bachelor's degree in music technology. She's incredibly smart and capable of absolutely anything if properly motivated.

However, most of what they taught her was completely out of date *while* they were teaching it to her, and completely useless six months after that.

DF
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DCombs

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2010, 01:21:22 pm »

i went to IPR in minneapolis. it was a very well equipped school, although since the gear is in constant use it breaks down frequently.

for me, i had to learn how to get through pro tools, but since i work better in reaper than i do in pt, i didn't put an emphasis on it. i wish i knew more about pt, but it's not really available to me either.

all in all, i think it's better for someone to learn while working on the job. so maybe it's better, j, that you found some one who is lacking in those skill sets. i say that because i believe that you will be able to show him order of operations that you believe to be important to your work. learning real world flow is far better than taking a pointless class that you have to pay out the ass. ps. pt classes were extra money because the bastards at digi make you pay to take your certification test, even though you already payed ($300 for me) to take the class...ftw?

IPR was good, but i would be only willing to pay half tuition. tuition was $44,000.
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audio~geek

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2010, 07:19:07 pm »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 21:01

here's the short of it, at least what i personally think should be "graduate" level PT knowledge.

1.  beat detective.  you might not be a "master", but i certainly expect you to know what it is, how it works, how to work it, and be comfortable doing so.

1a.  a complete bonus is someone that can beat detect on the tuplet feel.

2.  comping multiple takes of things into one "take" without clicks and pops and/or bad edits.  when i ask this of someone i ALWAYS give them a road map.  i.e. my notes on what takes i liked as i heard them.  

3.  fixing timing problems.  i.e. acoustic guitar is a touch off in one bar, i expect an assistant to know how to fix that.  there are a few different ways of doing it, and i couldn't care less which is used as long as it sounds right.

4.  working with samples.  a basic understanding of the implementation of drum samples.



This stuff was definitely covered by my school Metalworks Institute (Canada). Our third semester of PT classes focused on Beat detective and Autotune.
I think it's kinda weird he doesn't know that stuff after a year of school.
It all comes with practice though. I didn't get really good at Beat detective until people started sending me drums to clean up.

When I interned my PT skills didn't matter. Any time I solved a problem for the engineer it seemed like I was showing off somehow.
Here's an example - band was used to a certain kind of metronome sound. The standard PT clicks didn't work because they wanted something with a tone that was longer. The guys getting paid had no clue what to do. I suggested signal generator and gate sidechained to the click. Exactly what the band wanted and I was told I wasn't allowed in the session the next day. Embarassed

NelsonL

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2010, 07:54:23 am »

audio~geek wrote on Sat, 02 October 2010 16:19

j.hall wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 21:01

here's the short of it, at least what i personally think should be "graduate" level PT knowledge.

1.  beat detective.  you might not be a "master", but i certainly expect you to know what it is, how it works, how to work it, and be comfortable doing so.

1a.  a complete bonus is someone that can beat detect on the tuplet feel.

2.  comping multiple takes of things into one "take" without clicks and pops and/or bad edits.  when i ask this of someone i ALWAYS give them a road map.  i.e. my notes on what takes i liked as i heard them.  

3.  fixing timing problems.  i.e. acoustic guitar is a touch off in one bar, i expect an assistant to know how to fix that.  there are a few different ways of doing it, and i couldn't care less which is used as long as it sounds right.

4.  working with samples.  a basic understanding of the implementation of drum samples.



This stuff was definitely covered by my school Metalworks Institute (Canada). Our third semester of PT classes focused on Beat detective and Autotune.
I think it's kinda weird he doesn't know that stuff after a year of school.
It all comes with practice though. I didn't get really good at Beat detective until people started sending me drums to clean up.

When I interned my PT skills didn't matter. Any time I solved a problem for the engineer it seemed like I was showing off somehow.
Here's an example - band was used to a certain kind of metronome sound. The standard PT clicks didn't work because they wanted something with a tone that was longer. The guys getting paid had no clue what to do. I suggested signal generator and gate sidechained to the click. Exactly what the band wanted and I was told I wasn't allowed in the session the next day. Embarassed


Did you share your idea with the engineer privately, or announce it in front of the entire room?

Keeping things running smoothly relies heavily on the band maintaining absolute confidence in the engineer. When that starts to erode it's really no fun for anybody.

Which doesn't mean you were treated right either.
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Nicky D

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 10:57:07 am »

Coming up with a click idea...which sounds clunky to me anyway  (what's wrong with a keyboard patch with a bar loop?)...is not an eyebrow raiser....for me it would be "sure...you set that up and then get 6 lattes with cinnamon, sugar and extra cream on the side please".

If that embarrassed your engineer, then there is a problem...if however someone is always speaking out of turn and making suggestions how "they would do it differently"...then there is no use for them is there?
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TRJanuary

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2010, 02:38:12 am »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 21:01

here's the short of it, at least what i personally think should be "graduate" level PT knowledge.

1.  beat detective.  you might not be a "master", but i certainly expect you to know what it is, how it works, how to work it, and be comfortable doing so.

1a.  a complete bonus is someone that can beat detect on the tuplet feel.

2.  comping multiple takes of things into one "take" without clicks and pops and/or bad edits.  when i ask this of someone i ALWAYS give them a road map.  i.e. my notes on what takes i liked as i heard them.  

3.  fixing timing problems.  i.e. acoustic guitar is a touch off in one bar, i expect an assistant to know how to fix that.  there are a few different ways of doing it, and i couldn't care less which is used as long as it sounds right.

4.  working with samples.  a basic understanding of the implementation of drum samples.




Haha, so there is something lower than a turd-polisher.  A turd-polisher's apprentice ??
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Fig

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2010, 11:42:08 am »

J.

If I had to learn PT shortcuts in audio school - I'd be pissed and want my money back.  I can understand an elective called "navigating ProTools and other software environments" or something, but...

An audio education must include frequency, amplitude, HEARING, critical listening (no its not the same thing!), equipment OVERVIEWS, acoustics and lots of laboratory time employing mic techniques, signal processing and yes... calibration of the systems required to capture such electromagnetic disturbances faithfully.

It shouldn't matter what the media is, the fundamentals of audio have been the same since we could hear and will likely not change any faster than the fundamentals of say, gravity.

I'll take an assistant that can cal a tape machine and keep his mouth shut over ANY amount of software knowledge in ANY virtual environment.

You hired him and you expected HIM to teach you a trick or two?
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Adam Miller

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2010, 01:51:07 pm »

TRJanuary wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 07:38



Haha, so there is something lower than a turd-polisher.


An unemployed graduate?
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j.hall

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2010, 01:07:59 pm »

Fig wrote on Tue, 12 October 2010 10:42



I'll take an assistant that can cal a tape machine and keep his mouth shut over ANY amount of software knowledge in ANY virtual environment.



tape?  what's that?

Quote:



You hired him and you expected HIM to teach you a trick or two?


nope!  i expect him to do, what i consider simple tasks, without me taking time away from forward progress to teach him how to do these things.
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J T

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2010, 07:31:57 pm »

I didn't go to Audio School. I had no Pro Tools experience. Then I took an outstanding training class and came out of it with Pro Tools Certification from Digi. Not everyone who started that class finished it.

Now when I sit in front of those two screens with a session I hardly ever have to think about "Well How do I do that?". I just do it. It's turned into a reflex, I think. If you do it enough it becomes second nature. Ummm That's scary. Sorry.

I'm not sure what a lot of those School programs are concentrating on, but I think experience might be the best teacher in most cases.
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bjornson

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Re: audio schools.....a commentary of observation
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2010, 08:46:14 pm »

audio~geek wrote on Sun, 03 October 2010 00:19

j.hall wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 21:01

here's the short of it, at least what i personally think should be "graduate" level PT knowledge.

1.  beat detective.  you might not be a "master", but i certainly expect you to know what it is, how it works, how to work it, and be comfortable doing so.

1a.  a complete bonus is someone that can beat detect on the tuplet feel.

2.  comping multiple takes of things into one "take" without clicks and pops and/or bad edits.  when i ask this of someone i ALWAYS give them a road map.  i.e. my notes on what takes i liked as i heard them.  

3.  fixing timing problems.  i.e. acoustic guitar is a touch off in one bar, i expect an assistant to know how to fix that.  there are a few different ways of doing it, and i couldn't care less which is used as long as it sounds right.

4.  working with samples.  a basic understanding of the implementation of drum samples.



This stuff was definitely covered by my school Metalworks Institute (Canada). Our third semester of PT classes focused on Beat detective and Autotune.
I think it's kinda weird he doesn't know that stuff after a year of school.
It all comes with practice though. I didn't get really good at Beat detective until people started sending me drums to clean up.


Going to school to learn beat detective and autotune......
I'm speechless.
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