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Author Topic: Brauner KHE Pop Filter + General Pop Filter Discussion  (Read 22832 times)

bob ebeling

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Brauner KHE Pop Filter + General Pop Filter Discussion
« on: July 31, 2010, 03:01:21 PM »

I recently picked up a VM1-KHE and I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions on the Brauner pop filter that is an option for it.  I'm worried that such a big bulky thing would change the tone drastically, which, as gorgeous as this mic sounds would not be welcome.  Klaus sir, I'm sure you might have a good opinion on this one.  

I'm currently using a Pauly Superscreen which I find to mess with the tone in the transparent least, but I'm enamored with the possibility of adding this giant cylindar filter based on looks.  
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Bob Ebeling
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Brauner Pop Filter opinions
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2010, 05:36:42 PM »

Bob,
Your observation is correct: The original VM1 pop screen, included in the original KHE package, is a bit on the over-protective side, with moderate impact on the high frequencies. As well-designed and executed that accessory was, we opted to delete it after about fifty mics sold.

All popper stoppers currently commercially available range on a scale from fairly transparent, though detrimental to the capsule's cleanliness (and their inability to suppress some air sounds), all the way to super-efficient in the suppression of unwanted air noise, but with too much attenuation in the highs and transients.

So, all of these products affect audio, more or less.

I found a good compromise between protection and acoustic transparency in using a wooden crochet ring, minimum of 8 inches, with two planes of single layer hose/stocking material lightly tensioned across and mated to a standard mic stand thread.
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Klaus Heyne
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Silvertone

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Re: Brauner Pop Filter opinions
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 08:15:41 AM »

Funny Klaus, as 25 years ago this is exactly how the Popper Stopper Company made theirs... In fact I still have it. However, I stopped using anything like this 15 years ago (at least with singers)... I'd rather take the time to guide them through proper mic technique (which they can use the rest of their lives!)

Thanks for the answer, Klaus.
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bob ebeling

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 08:14:58 PM »

Yes, thanks a lot, Klaus.  
I'll head off to the local crochet supply this week (there actually is one down the road).  

Any particular panty hose I should keep an eye out for?  

In this pop filter craze I have tried just singing and then pulling away the filters and the results are quite dramatic, I can hear how the air around the capsule is impacted.  

In the end I just want less sibilance and less taco bell seepage from the litany of the untrained.  I find sibilance the biggest issue from filter to filter.  It seems to follow the singer, but trying 5 different pop filters before we begin real takes is just not an option in the zero attention span shrinking budget age.

10 years ago when I could have spent 3 days testing 40 pop filters if I wanted, the thought did not even cross my mind.  Funny.  
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Bob Ebeling
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 03:40:35 AM »

bob ebeling wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 17:14

Any particular panty hose I should keep an eye out for?  

Probably the kind that turns you on the most.

There are tricks to tame sibilance. Most of them employ off-axis positioning of the mouth vis a vis the capsule.

I am sure there are experienced engineers here who can chime in with their special secrets of how to tame the esses. My favorite: position the mic such that the axis extending straight out from the mouth is below that of the top of the mic (assuming it's hanging).
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Klaus Heyne
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bob ebeling

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2010, 03:12:58 PM »

This angled above position has been a favorite of mine, especially supported by some cool youtube vids of ELO, Rush, and Queen (at Musicland Studios in Munich) all using it with a C12a seemingly 2 feet away and above them.  That was one popular mic in the late 70's!

Not a pantyhose guy.  It would be interesting to try out singing between a couple naked thighs!

I can just picture the next thread...'Sheer texture control tops work the best', 'I prefer the skintone ones over the vox amp cloth pattern ones'...

This all goes to mic technique, gaps between teeth, and TALENT ON THE MIC.  Freak me.
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Bob Ebeling
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Jeff Stuart Saltzman

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2010, 03:49:19 PM »

bob ebeling wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 12:12

This angled above position has been a favorite of mine, especially supported by some cool youtube vids of ELO, Rush, and Queen (at Musicland Studios in Munich) all using it with a C12a seemingly 2 feet away and above them.  



Hi Bob---could you point me more specifically to the clips you mentioned? I had no luck finding them...

Sorry for going off topic Klaus!

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Jeff

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 03:50:18 PM »

If one does choose to use a pop screen, angling the screen so that the pops glance off rather than hitting the flat of the screen head on can help a lot. This technique allows for the use of a more open mesh that is acoustically more transparent. Incidentally, I don't recall ever seeing this done, but I have been doing it for some time now with good results when going without a screen is inadvisable.
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Tim Britton

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bob ebeling

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2010, 05:10:56 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYek9WozImI&feature=relat ed

There's a few shots in here of Queen at Musicland with the famous Mack engineering.  Not sure if that is actually a c12a.  Look for the extended part 1/4 thru 4/4 for the extended footage including a great walk into the studio lounge.  If you dig any ELO from 1975 to 1982, it was done at the same studio with the same engineer and tones.

Look for the Rush Moving Pictures vids of Tom Sawyer, Limelight etc.. which were all shot at Le Studio (now defunct?) where the Police and a hundred other greats made records up until the early 2000's.

When I started as head engineer at Loho in NYC in 2002 one of the first things owner engineer extroardinare Victor Luke showed me was this odd above the head/singer singing up like Lemme technique with a C12a.  'Distance equals depth' was the accompanying phrase.  It was a very 3D way to do a lead vocal but you have to build the mix around it a bit instead of smashing the vocal on top of an already smashed mix.  
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Bob Ebeling
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bob ebeling

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2010, 05:29:09 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKpn0esJ73w

Here's Geddy doing the angled c12a no filter vibe.

You have to have two congas for your hands if your gonna try this technique though.  Tried it without the congas and it just didn't work.

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Bob Ebeling
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2010, 05:54:16 PM »

 Geddy lipsyncs on that video, and I would not use these promo shots as any indication for what mic, mic technique, or studio may have been used in the real recording.
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Klaus Heyne
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2010, 06:01:20 PM »

bob ebeling wrote on Mon, 02 August 2010 14:10

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYek9WozImI&feature=relat ed Not sure if that is actually a c12a.

It's a 414EB (starting at 5:50 on forward)
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Klaus Heyne
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Eric H.

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2010, 07:06:28 PM »

It is funny because the angle I usually see in videos is inverse: capsule looking towards the ground and not the ceiling as we see in the Queen video. I should try that!
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eric harizanos

bob ebeling

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2010, 07:15:03 PM »

Get right up those huge schnozes.  Put a clip on right on the nostril.
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Bob Ebeling
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Mike Cleaver

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Re: Brauner KHE Pop Filter Opinions and Options
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2010, 04:07:10 PM »

In my experience, positioning is the key and it's going to be different for every speaker/singer and every microphone.
People with vocal training are the easiest to work with.
Great performers know how to "pull" the plosives and suppress the sibilance.
The worst performers are instructed to speak or sing at a 90 degree angle to the mic capsule.
I don't like using pop filters or foam screens.
Windscreens are precisely that, for outdoor use where wind noise can be a problem.
People who spit or spray get a cheap mic that's disposable.
The other idea, put forward by others of using two mics, a placebo for the performer to sing into however they prefer and the real mic, further away, often works well, especially with a good mic with reach.
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