R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: SE Reflexion Filter  (Read 15786 times)

maarvold

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 853
SE Reflexion Filter
« on: October 26, 2009, 08:22:13 pm »

I love my SE Reflexion Filter:

http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

Essentially, this curved device provides partial physical isolation to block unwanted sounds from entering a microphone.  I have a mix room in my home and, periodically, I have to do a vocal fix in my guest bedroom.  The Reflexion Filter keeps much of the sound of my acoustically incorrect room from reaching the microphone--especially when I hang a packing blanket a couple of feet from the back wall, behind the singer.  The other day I had the singer 12" from the mic and it sounded fabulous, no intrusive 'this room is kind of suckey' presence in the recorded signal at all.  It worked so successfully that I didn't notice any signature of the [untreated, rectangular] room the vocal was recorded in when I listened back.  There were also no weird effects from using it; it was like the mic was in an 'extremely enhanced cardioid' pattern--hearing only the singer.  

I haven't yet tried it, but I'd guess that one could effectively simulate the effect of largely surrounding an instrument with gobos with this thing as well.  I keep coming up with new ideas of how to use it that will eventually get tried.  Suffice to say that I find it very useful and beneficial in less-than-perfect sonic environments.  The only thing to bear in mind is that it is a little unwieldy, so allow a few extra minutes to get it set up.  But the construction seems designed for rugged use and years of service.  And I had no reservations about mounting several expensive tube microphones on it, although I was careful to make sure everything was well tightened down before I did.  Street price is around $275.  
Logged
Michael Aarvold
Audio Engineer

mdbeh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2009, 08:45:28 pm »

Nice review!  I've been curious about the Reflection Filter for a while, and it's great to get an informed opinion.
Logged
Brian Harper
Chicago, IL

Berolzheimer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2709
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 12:40:17 am »

mdbeh wrote on Mon, 26 October 2009 17:45

Nice review!  I've been curious about the Reflection Filter for a while, and it's great to get an informed opinion.


Me too.  Thanks, Michael.
Logged
The film sound side of my life:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0077235/

A bunch of songs I've recorded and/or mixed are here:
http://www.zget.me/billionaires/

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 08:39:39 pm »

Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

maarvold

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 853
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 12:16:56 pm »

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 17:39

Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  


More effective than several packing blankets.  And I've only ever used them with cardioid mics.  If you look at the website, the rejection is quite broadband in nature--probably not the case with packing blankets.  I'm actually considering buying another one.  

You do need a beefy mic stand to, for example, hold the Reflexion Filter and a U47.  But, the way I'd use packing blankets, I'd need at least 3 extra boom stands to get close to what the Reflexion Filter delivers (I set them up as a "T", then drape blankets over them).  I also wish they made a shorter post so that long mics would sit more 'in the middle of the middle', but even with the capsule a couple of inches from the end of the screen, it was very effective.  
Logged
Michael Aarvold
Audio Engineer

,

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 238
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 05:22:25 pm »

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 17:39

Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  



JJ, have you tried this device or are you just assuming that it wouldn't work based on the size of it?  

I have my room treated Ethan Winer style, including an absorptive cloud hanging from the ceiling, and when I record acoustic guitar it still sounds like I'm playing through a flanger.  I've wondered whether this device would help.
Logged

rick-slo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 10:55:38 pm »

Robert Shelton wrote on Sun, 08 November 2009 16:22

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 17:39

Do you get the same result with the packing blankets, but no filter?  I've always considered these way too small to be of any usefulness with cardioid microphones.  



JJ, have you tried this device or are you just assuming that it wouldn't work based on the size of it?  

I have my room treated Ethan Winer style, including an absorptive cloud hanging from the ceiling, and when I record acoustic guitar it still sounds like I'm playing through a flanger.  I've wondered whether this device would help.


A couple of years ago I tried out a pair of them for recording acoustic guitar. It definitely quiets the room. I sent them back because I felt they imparted some coloration I did not like and because it was just too inconvenient moving the now quite heavy and cumbersome mike stands around to position for the best stereo sound.

maarvold

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 853
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 02:25:10 pm »

rick-slo wrote on Sun, 08 November 2009 19:55

...I sent them back because I felt they imparted some coloration I did not like and because it was just too inconvenient moving the now quite heavy and cumbersome mike stands around to position for the best stereo sound.


I agree that the setup is somewhat cumbersome, but then, so is creating a proper acoustic for recording where none currently exists.  But the vocal stuff I recorded using the Reflexion Filter--in conjunction with a Klaus Heyne-modded U67 and EAR microphone amplifier (as Tim de Paravicini calls it)--well, let's just say that I am pretty picky and I can't imagining wanting anything better-sounding in a female vocal.  So I would not echo the statement, at least in my circumstance, that using the Reflexion Filter "imparted some coloration I did not like"; on the contrary, I was amazed at how the sound of my untreated spare bedroom did not intrude into the recording--especially given that the singer was 10-12 inches from the mic.    For the record, I reached my conclusions while doing an evaluation (using he Reflexion Filter) with 4 or 5 different expensive tube microphones and 4 different high-quality preamps and didn't hear any unexpected color from any combination.  The monitoring environment where I reached these conclusions has had an extreme amount of attention to acoustical treatment, monitoring, etc.  And the 67/EAR won the evaluation for that particular singer.  
Logged
Michael Aarvold
Audio Engineer

rick-slo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 05:18:59 pm »

maarvold wrote on Mon, 09 November 2009 13:25

rick-slo wrote on Sun, 08 November 2009 19:55

...I sent them back because I felt they imparted some coloration I did not like and because it was just too inconvenient moving the now quite heavy and cumbersome mike stands around to position for the best stereo sound.


I agree that the setup is somewhat cumbersome, but then, so is creating a proper acoustic for recording where none currently exists.  But the vocal stuff I recorded using the Reflexion Filter--in conjunction with a Klaus Heyne-modded U67 and EAR microphone amplifier (as Tim de Paravicini calls it)--well, let's just say that I am pretty picky and I can't imagining wanting anything better-sounding in a female vocal.  So I would not echo the statement, at least in my circumstance, that using the Reflexion Filter "imparted some coloration I did not like"; on the contrary, I was amazed at how the sound of my untreated spare bedroom did not intrude into the recording--especially given that the singer was 10-12 inches from the mic.    For the record, I reached my conclusions while doing an evaluation (using he Reflexion Filter) with 4 or 5 different expensive tube microphones and 4 different high-quality preamps and didn't hear any unexpected color from any combination.  The monitoring environment where I reached these conclusions has had an extreme amount of attention to acoustical treatment, monitoring, etc.  And the 67/EAR won the evaluation for that particular singer.  

Probably does work well with voices. Also there is much less bother seting up the mike position for recording a voice versus a setting up a pair of mikes for recording a guitar.On the guitar at the time I was using a Great River MP-2H and a pair of Microtech Gefell M300s. I have since treated the room as a whole with acoustic panels. As with much of this stuff it depends on what you are trying to record and even there YMMV.

McAllister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 09:09:18 pm »

I have used one a number of times in a friend's studio for lead & backing vocals.

It does an excellent job of negating the room.

I suppose you could get the same results with well placed blankets or baffles, which is what I do in my own room. But it works well.

M
Logged
Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone.

billiard

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 182
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 08:10:29 am »



From the perspective of justifying the expense, for the price of one Reflexion Filter, you could buy approximately twenty blankets, or you could build several large broadband absorbers (or gobos).

Logged
"I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to."   - Elvis Presley

Fibes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4306
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 09:14:12 am »

billiard wrote on Tue, 10 November 2009 08:10



From the perspective of justifying the expense, for the price of one Reflexion Filter, you could buy approximately twenty blankets, or you could build several large broadband absorbers (or gobos).





The few people I know who swear by them use them at locations other than the studio. Carrying all that stuff is a lot harder than one of those and I've heard it in action and was convinced it wasn't snake oil. If I had the need I might pick one up.
Logged
Fibes
-------------------------------------------------
"You can like it, or not like it."
The Studio

  http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist ?id=155759887
http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse
http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse2

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 12:20:54 pm »

Nobody has ever lent me one.  I was simply making an observation, based on seeing them.  SE is welcome to send me one for eval, though!
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

billiard

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 182
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 12:33:53 pm »



Certainly if portability is an important factor, they might be hard to beat.  And having never used one, I can't speak about their functionality.  But speaking as a studio owner, for the same money, I would rather treat the room(s) for use with any and all mics than treat just one mic.



Logged
"I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to."   - Elvis Presley

maarvold

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 853
Re: SE Reflexion Filter
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 02:08:35 pm »

I spoke to my [very picky, audio-wise] friend Carlos yesterday.  I asked him if he had ever used the Reflexion Filter and he said he tried it, but returned it because it was too 'colored' when he used it on one of his small diaphragm omni condenser mics.  I asked him, "Colored--in what way?"  
"Boxy-sounding," was his reply.  
I told him that was funny, because the vocal samples I sent him to check out were done with it and I didn't hear even a trace of "boxy"... he agreed and wants to try it again.  He thought about it for a moment, then remembered that he had bought the smaller, less expensive version.  
Also, I found this in the extensive thread on gearslutz:

"The optimum mic position relative to the filter is to get the capsule lined up with the centre of the filter and to have the mic sitting just within the curve of the filter, leaving plenty of space between it and the filter wall. If you place the mic further into the filter, the sound dries up more, but may change slightly in tonality"

Now that I spent around an hour reading all 8 pages of the gearslutz thread I would say the consensus is:

1. Most people who bought it like it, some like it a lot and use adjectives like "Focus" and "Clarity" when describing their results.  Several said it removes negative room ambience in their environment.  
2. A few people thought it was colored-sounding. "Nasal" and "Boxy" were the adjectives used.  One guy hated it and sold it immediately.  
3. Generally it was suggested that it wouldn't be beneficial to use if your room was already well-treated.  However, one guy with a well-treated room still preferred using it to not using it.  
4. It was suggested that the best sound would be obtained by keeping the mic not too deep in the shell, and that putting it deep in the shell would color the sound.  
Logged
Michael Aarvold
Audio Engineer
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up