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Author Topic: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann  (Read 27435 times)

Oliver Archut

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2009, 11:00:37 PM »

Hello J.J.,

my definition is that if it is labeled as an 'M7' it should do the job of an M7, if not, it is useless.

I also think the implication that Oliver is badmouthing Gefell because he is making mics now, is a bit silly.

Badmouthing? I was dealing with Gefell on that subject for over a year, I told them that the capsules are not usable and that something changed...

Best regards,

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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.

J.J. Blair

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2009, 02:27:33 AM »

Oliver, I don't feel you are badmouthing them, but I felt as though that was the implication of what you were doing.  For the reasons I stated, I disagree, of course.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Oliver Archut

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2009, 09:16:47 AM »

Hello J.J.,

sorry I know what your  are saying. My pointing out that I already talked to Gefell several times and tried to make them aware did not come out easy to understand.

Best

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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.

Fletcher

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2009, 11:49:14 AM »

Oliver Archut wrote on Thu, 05 November 2009 22:53

I don't fully doubt your experience, but do take it with a grain of salt as you are a manufacturer of microphones who may have an ulterior motive [not saying you do, but the possibility does exist].

A friend of mine told me once that if a company has to point out that it is a professional microphone, it probably is not.


No disrespect intended, and I hope none was taken.  My point was, that while I don't doubt your experience with the product, I take everything with a grain of salt these days unless I have experienced the same phenomenon... which in this case I have not.  Could be do to my lack of "day to day" working experience with the product, but again, I have not had the problem you have had.  Nothing more, nothing less, sorry if my words came out wrong and I inadvertently shot an "implication".

As to Stayne's "Innertube" product.  The "Mag Mic" I have has a new style Nylon / Teflon CK-12 esque capsule.  I also had a few of these capsules in my inventory of capsules for a while and traded them to Stayne for some damn thing I can't remember at the moment as he said he needed them for building more "Mag Mics" [and as I thought they were pretty much worthless, thought it was a good trade at the time though I don't remember what the hell we traded for].
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

J.J. Blair

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2009, 02:19:27 PM »

Getting anything of value for those capsules is a good trade!
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Schallfeldnebel

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2009, 03:07:42 PM »

Klaus wrote:"It's certainly hard to have an intelligent discussion about AKG's CK12 capsule, when they gave two rather different capsules the same name."

Klaus, I wonder if the Teflon CK12 in the C414 ULS and the Teflon CK12 in the TLII are "different" capsules. While searching for a good C422, looking through many charts of C422's and C426's, I saw 6 dB in tolerances. To me it looks like Teflon CK12 capsules that have a large presence peak are sold as TLII's and the ones within more norrow tolerances are sold as the more linear ones. Off course this is speculation, but the charts I have seen proof the wide tolerences.

BTW, we are very off topic.

Erik Sikkema
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

Klaus Heyne

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2009, 04:43:43 PM »

Schallfeldnebel wrote on Sat, 07 November 2009 12:07


Klaus, I wonder if the Teflon CK12 in the C414 ULS and the Teflon CK12 in the TLII are "different" capsules.

Off topic or not, it's an important distinction that readers need to know:

These are two different Teflon capsules. The original CK12 Teflon was rather gray in sound, and neutral in its midrange response.

In the late 1980s, AKG tried to regain market share for the 414 series of solid state mics by re-shaping the backplate of that capsule, using (should I be proud?) a couple of my fine tuned original CK12 brass capsules from Peter Wolf's (Austrian producer for Foreigner, and others) C12 collection as template. They then added the"TLII" suffix to the otherwise unchanged 414 ULS.. They also used that same capsule in the re-vamped "The Tube" mic, which was consequently renamed "C12 VR".

So, quite different from, let's say, Shure, which used the unavoidable capsule manufacturing tolerances to segregate SM56, 57, and 58 capsules, there where actual design differences between the two CK12 Teflon capsules.

Why you would experience such a large spread in high frequency response among otherwise identical designs, I cannot understand, as tolerances for capsules (and whole mics) are normally limited to a max of
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
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Schallfeldnebel

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2009, 01:04:29 PM »

To be more precise I saw differences from -2 to +4 dB, hence the 6dB. Within the 422/426 stereo microphopne itself I saw differences of 2 dB. Used to the narrow tolerances of DPA microphones, I find these differences rather high.

Erik Sikkema  
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."

J.J. Blair

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2009, 01:18:26 PM »

Klaus, I thought the TLII was transformerless, no?
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Klaus Heyne

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2009, 01:29:55 PM »

I was referring to the capsule, not the mic. And, yes, the TLII was a transformer-less version of the original 414 ULS, which itself was a successor to the C414 EB.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Schallfeldnebel

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Re: New TLM102: The Cheapest Large Condenser Neumann
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2009, 06:33:38 AM »

Back on topic, the frequency curve of the TLM102 is now available on the Neumann site. It looks very alike the curve of the SM69fet switched at cardioid. We may expect a slightly sharp high-end. Comparing the 102 with the 103, the presence peak starts a bit later with the 102, but gets a bit steeper at the maximum, and rolls off a little bit more early. Both peak at +4.

I really wonder what the design thought behind this microphones was. Just a cheap large membrane, or customised for a certain user group.
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
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